RE: Do Christians have faith in oxygen/air?
December 23, 2017 at 10:10 pm
(This post was last modified: December 23, 2017 at 11:13 pm by possibletarian.)
(December 23, 2017 at 7:04 pm)SteveII Wrote: No again. The NT consists of a series of claims that happened in the physical world. Rebuttal witnesses would be the simplest way to prove the claims are false. Therefore the series of claims contained in the NT are very much falsifiable. What is not falsifiable is the existence of the supernatural--when it interacts with the natural world, those interaction are certainly falsifiable.
The NT and the claims of Mohammed and Joe Smith have nearly no similarities. One catalogs public events and witnessed by thousands over decades while the other two are events that happened to one person with no physical evidence.
Nonsense, Of course they are not similar they were different events, but just as unbelievable in the claims of supernatural intervention. Without that supernatural intervention (which you admit is not falsifiable) your stories really amount to nothing
Quote:Like I said, the body of evidence for the Jesus' claims is not even comparable to the evidence of what went on on one man's head.
That's just the point of the NT, we really don't know where the stories originated, we are even unclear as to who wrote the gospels for instance, and were written long after, they may very well have originally come from one persons head and spread from there. Given the rather fickle unknown nature of these witnesses they can hardly be counted as evidence for supernatural claims at all. And again without evidence of the supernatural claims that many religions make why should we believe them ?
There are eight witnesses to Joseph Smiths so called golden plates, and the three witnesses who claimed they had heard gods voice instructing Joseph Smith, what's more we know who these people are, even what they looked like. They were of course frauds there is no reason to believe them any more than NT writers.
Quote:It could, but that is not what I have done at all. My faith is backed by evidence and reasoning. My list does not include any "just because" or "well, it's in the Bible" or even what keeps coming up: "I have no good reasons, but you can't prove otherwise".
Well that's just the point, you have reasons but no evidence you have already stated that the supernatural cannot be falsified, so basically unless you can provide strong evidence for the supernatural elements of what you believe, then you reasons come to nothing.
Quote:Well, that and the chronicled three years of Jesus' life, death and resurrection.
Yes a fantastic claim, of a fantastic god, which seem to be lacking any evidence.
If there was indeed evidence then this debate between religions would long be over.
Quote:I have heard every professional argument any atheist has ever made against Christianity and the rebuttal arguments. You overestimate the atheist position and/or underestimate the Christian one. There are Christians in every field of study and in every endeavour of science--their beliefs are not a problem.
I don't really estimate the value of either position, I simply ask you for evidence, you cannot overestimate a lack of belief, that's just silly
And? if they do good science, why would their faith be a problem.?
Quote:You seem to want to make this a matter of "faith" without evidence/reasons. That is not what Christianity is. You may have encountered many that couldn't defend it and fell back on "faith", but that just means they were ill-equipped.
The Muslim apologetic and The Jew, would say exactly the same as you.
You talk as though you present a good argument, all you have to do is convince someone who lacks belief you don't even have to unconvinced them of anything to start with. The god describe below should have heaps of compelling evidence.. yet as always the world carries on as if none of those attributes are true.
Lord of Hosts/Powers (Jehovah Sabaoth)
Lord our Maker
faithful God who does no wrong
A forgiving God
A fortress of salvation
A glorious crown
A jealous and avenging God
A Master in heaven A refuge for his people
A refuge for the needy in his distress
A refuge for the oppressed
A refuge for the poor
A sanctuary
A shade from the heat
A shelter from the storm
A source of strength
A stronghold in times of trouble
An ever present help in trouble
Architect and builder
Builder of everything
Commander of the Lord’s army
Creator of heaven and earth
Defender of widows
Eternal King
Father Father of compassion
Father of our spirits
Father of the heavenly lights
My helper
My hiding place
My hope
My light
My mighty rock
God who relents from sending calamity
God who sees (El-Roi)
Great and awesome God
Great and powerful God
Great, mighty, and awesome God
King of glory
King of heaven
Living and true God
'Those who ask a lot of questions may seem stupid, but those who don't ask questions stay stupid'