Cucumber Dildo

[theVOID]

What's your point here? I'm not trying to change history...

Perhaps you misunderstood me... All I was saying was that the very practices you condemn as being immoral are essentially the same ones that were critical to the development of our species; The consumption of meat, cooking food, tool making for hunting, keeping animals etc were all solutions to selection pressures the likes of which lead to the deviation of our species from other apes - For you to be the product of such selection pressures, to owe your very existence to them and yet to condemn them, to call them immoral, is hypocritical in the very deepest sense.

If you were really concerned with minimizing suffering as you claimed then your moral arguments would be utilitarian ones, what you display through the course of your argument however are deontological judgements, you can't be making those moral judgements and still claim that you're working from some 'high ground' or objective measure of suffering, deonotolgical judgements are entirely reactionary and emotional, full of absolutes.

Possibly, depends on the severity of the suffering involved for both parties. If it's a case of testing on one monkey will definitely save one humans life then I'd probably find that acceptable however it's not so cut and dry.

It's more like 10 monkeys are used to develop a treatment that saves tens of thousands of people.

That makes no sense, since the damage has already been done what would be the point in my rejection of such medicines, I say again, I'm not trying to change history.

So you're happy to use the products of a practice that you find immoral because it's already been done? Would you live in a house built by child labour? Would you watch child porn? After all, the damage has 'already been done' in the very same way. Likewise, why don't you eat meat? The chicken has already been killed, Eggs have already been laid, Cows have already been milked - all of this has been done by the time products arrive at your door - Of course this is really because your values regarding your own health are stronger than your values regarding animal suffering, while you can sustain your diet as a vegan there are simply no legitimate alternatives to medicine and when it comes to your own existence your deontological judgement breaks down and it becomes rather clear than your concerns for 'suffering' and an equal consideration of the suffering of animals is a front.

I'm a vegan and I've not commanded you to do anything, nor have I tried to persuade you to do anything. If anything it's the other way around, I've merely responded to questions regarding my view points whereas others have tried to convince me that I'm somehow wrong to want to reduce suffering.

Except nothing you've said would reduce suffering, quite the opposite in most cases, you're using that as a shield to avoid admitting you are making emotional judgements. If you want to come out and say you've got no objective case for your values then that's fine, if you want to really talk about reducing suffering as a whole then we'd probably agree on a fair amount but as it stands you're coming off as judgemental in more than just an 'I don't like' sense.

BTW; These days I don't eat meat very much and would be guilt free if I went on a vegetarian (not vegan) diet.

There is a lot of suffering in the dairy and egg industries, which is why I don't consume them.

That took ages...

Just a point of clarity, that wasn't my quote, you got the tags crossed.

I love meat, eggs and milk, I had all 3 in an omelette last night.