RE: Religious 'connection'
January 20, 2018 at 11:52 am
(This post was last modified: January 20, 2018 at 11:56 am by Whateverist.)
(January 20, 2018 at 10:53 am)Little Rik Wrote:(January 20, 2018 at 9:57 am)Whateverist Wrote: I totally respect your right to hold an opinion different than my own. I assume your beliefs are genuine at least from your own point of view. However in my opinion your beliefs and those of any fundamentalist religionist share many points in common. One is an unwavering certainty in a system of beliefs which you share with a wider community and which you obtained from a recognized leader of said community. Another is your insistence that those who approach questions of meaningfulness and purpose in a manner different from your own are flat out wrong.
I understand that you are entirely satisfied with the truth and accuracy of your beliefs, but I also note that all fundamentalist religionists are as well. So fine, if you prefer to brand your unshakable beliefs as spirituality rather than religion, you go right on ahead and do so. But please try to recognize that others will describe your beliefs by what they can observe in your behavior and what they hear you say. You call it stupid but then you subscribe to a rigid jargon we don't share, so no offense taken. Since a person can be judged as accurately by his detractors as by his supporters you do me great honor.
Life in this finite universe is all about confrontation.
If I say that somebody else is wrong is up to the other person to prove me wrong.
On this I disagree. If you assert that someone is wrong it is up to you to back up that charge or else be prepared for everyone to dismiss it as just one more of Rik's personal opinions espoused as fact. You know, business as usual for you.
(January 20, 2018 at 10:53 am)Little Rik Wrote: By the way a fundamentalist rely on dogmas.
I do not.
I have no dogmas so I can not possibly be a fundamentalist.
NDEs which I believe in are based on science not on dogma.
The very science that contradict atheists.
That might mean something if a) you could back it up with citations from respectable scientific institutions and b) we didn't all already know that you hold what you call "intuitional science" in the highest esteem. I won't discuss NDE's with you as you do hold their importance as a matter of faith while I consider them a joke. No sale. Of course you have many dogmas. You are forever challenging people to tell you true meaning of philosophy or the true purpose of human existence which you act as if only you know. These are some of your many dogma. You seem incapable of considering any question without immediate rushing to judgment and immediately chiseling your choice in stone.
(January 20, 2018 at 10:53 am)Little Rik Wrote: Most atheists rely on dogma.
They say that the consciousness is a product of the brain and when the brain die also the consciousness die.
These kind of unproven statements taken as real evidence automatically end up in the corral of dogmas so it is quite obvious that most atheists are fundamentalists considering that they rely on dogmas.
At least quote us properly. Most atheists would say that consciousness is supported by the brain in exactly the same way that respiration is supported by the lungs or digestion is supported by the gastrointestinal tract. Terminate the operation of any of these organs and they no longer support those processes. Consciousness cannot "die" as it is not alive, anymore than digestion is alive. However indications of either processes continuing after death is lacking.
Your claim is that consciousness continues unsupported. Is that true of digestion and respiration as well? If you had any serious evidence to offer, we'd at least look at it but not NDE's. We'll never agree about those and the dogmas of intuitional science do not have standing among any atheists I know.
(January 20, 2018 at 10:53 am)Little Rik Wrote: One more point.
You say...................an unwavering certainty in a system of beliefs which you share with a wider community and which you obtained from a recognized leader of said community............
This has very little to do with anything.
Suppose you study in order to become a doctor or suppose you train in order to become a black belt.
You of course must have total belief in the system that your trainer or teacher teach you.
Are you follow a religion in this case?
You have no idea what a religion is nor what spirituality is all about.
Can't deny it, can you? But no, what is true regarding the efficient learning of a craft does not apply to answering questions of meaning or purpose. If you choose to adopt that of your master, then you are like a child walking around the house in his daddy's shoes. You can't shortcut a thing like that. The minute you defer judgement on meaning and purpose to another, you are lost. Game over. Better luck next time .. if there really is a next time. Oh wait, you have a dogma for that.
(January 20, 2018 at 11:26 am)Succubus Wrote: A coherent definition of 'spirituality' would be a good starting point.
*my bold*
You know Rik doesn't speak coherent. That's just mean.