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Street Epistemology - Practice
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice
(January 18, 2018 at 8:30 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote:
(January 17, 2018 at 9:15 pm)curiosne Wrote: 1)  Agreed on this. The evidence for existence of the gospels is not in doubt. 
2)  Agreed on this. 
3)  Can you provide more details on the witnesses? I don't think anyone though knows who wrote the Gospels and the names given to the writers were assigned arbitrarily.

4)  So are you saying that because the gospels have benefited people then it must be true? 
5)  I don't understand this. Please explain.

3.)  Since we are talking about epistemology, I would highly recommend you ask anyone who is telling you that the Gospel authors where assigned arbitrarily "how do you know that?"  We have a number of manuscripts and copies of Gospels.  It is my understanding, that each place, where we have the top of the scroll or there is a heading on a page, the gospels are attributed to their traditional author.  There is no dispute about the authors, as well it seems there would be little reason to ascribe them to those of lesser authority (Mark, Luke)  if they are just choosing someone. 

4.) I'm afraid, that this is not the lines of which I was thinking.   I was speaking more to those had met Jesus and drastically changed their life because of it.  While it doesn't mean that it is necessarily true,  I think that it does speak towards the truth, if someone acts like it is true (especially in the face of adversity).   Paul had a fairly high position, which he gave up, to join those he was previously persecuting.  John  the brother of Jesus is reported to be skeptical early in Jesus ministry.  Many dropped what they where doing to follow Jesus.  

5.)  This also connects to the last.  Many of the claims of the new testament where done in public, they where falsifiable to those who they where preaching to.  Persecution a conspiracy theory or a lie, is more likely to fall apart, when there is pressure against it.  There is some questions about some of the tradition of martyrdom, but it is difficult to say that the early church wasn't persecuted.  Criteria of embarrassment is an indicator of truthfulness, in that it paints the teller in a poor light (which most people are unlikely to do if given a choice).   

AS well we have witness to the following outside of Biblical and Early Church writers which comes from early and often hostile writers.  From these external sources you can verify quite a bit about the story of Jesus.  -Cold Case Christianity

Quote:Jesus was born and lived in Palestine. He was born, supposedly, to a virgin and had an earthly father who was a carpenter. He was a teacher who taught that through repentance and belief, all followers would become brothers and sisters. He led the Jews away from their beliefs. He was a wise man who claimed to be God and the Messiah. He had unusual magical powers and performed miraculous deeds. He healed the lame. He accurately predicted the future. He was persecuted by the Jews for what He said, betrayed by Judah Iskarioto. He was beaten with rods, forced to drink vinegar and wear a crown of thorns. He was crucified on the eve of the Passover and this crucifixion occurred under the direction of Pontius Pilate, during the time of Tiberius. On the day of His crucifixion, the sky grew dark and there was an earthquake. Afterward, He was buried in a tomb and the tomb was later found to be empty. He appeared to His disciples resurrected from the grave and showed them His wounds. These disciples then told others Jesus was resurrected and ascended into heaven. Jesus’ disciples and followers upheld a high moral code. One of them was named Matthai. The disciples were also persecuted for their faith but were martyred without changing their claims. They met regularly to worship Jesus, even after His death.

3) From what I've read (wikipeadia, Bart Earlman Blog, Quora, etc), the gospels of Matthew, Luke and John are anonymous writings with the names being given the them as a Christian tradition. The identity of authorship for the Gospel of Mark is though being debated still. Would you agree with this?

4) But again, if your evidence does not speak towards its truth, should it be discussed at all? I can also give several examples where people were influenced by religious leaders drastically changed people's lives. I'm an ex-Buddhist so Buddha comes to mind where he has also influenced several kings and nobles.

5) This point needs more research from my end. I'll get back to you on it.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - November 20, 2017 at 11:16 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 20, 2017 at 11:24 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - November 20, 2017 at 11:28 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 20, 2017 at 11:34 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - November 20, 2017 at 11:45 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 21, 2017 at 12:04 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - November 21, 2017 at 12:10 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Crossless2.0 - November 21, 2017 at 10:36 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 21, 2017 at 10:51 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Crossless2.0 - November 21, 2017 at 12:45 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 21, 2017 at 4:32 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Fireball - November 20, 2017 at 11:46 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Succubus - November 20, 2017 at 11:49 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Nay_Sayer - November 30, 2017 at 9:40 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - November 21, 2017 at 12:34 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 21, 2017 at 12:35 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - November 21, 2017 at 12:47 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 21, 2017 at 1:02 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - November 21, 2017 at 1:30 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 21, 2017 at 1:32 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - November 21, 2017 at 1:42 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 21, 2017 at 1:49 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - November 21, 2017 at 1:59 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 21, 2017 at 2:05 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - November 21, 2017 at 6:26 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 21, 2017 at 10:14 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - November 22, 2017 at 1:32 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 22, 2017 at 7:01 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - November 22, 2017 at 5:13 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 23, 2017 at 8:34 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Edwardo Piet - November 21, 2017 at 6:31 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - November 21, 2017 at 6:34 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Grandizer - November 30, 2017 at 8:29 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Neo-Scholastic - January 3, 2018 at 8:55 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by vulcanlogician - January 3, 2018 at 9:02 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by vulcanlogician - January 4, 2018 at 12:29 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by The Grand Nudger - November 21, 2017 at 11:43 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by vulcanlogician - November 21, 2017 at 6:41 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Whateverist - November 21, 2017 at 6:55 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Edwardo Piet - November 21, 2017 at 6:56 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Whateverist - November 21, 2017 at 6:59 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by vulcanlogician - November 21, 2017 at 7:02 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Edwardo Piet - November 21, 2017 at 7:05 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Edwardo Piet - November 22, 2017 at 5:45 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - November 22, 2017 at 5:53 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Edwardo Piet - November 22, 2017 at 6:01 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - November 22, 2017 at 6:14 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Edwardo Piet - November 23, 2017 at 4:15 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - November 23, 2017 at 5:26 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Edwardo Piet - November 23, 2017 at 5:51 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - November 23, 2017 at 5:55 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 24, 2017 at 6:23 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by vulcanlogician - November 24, 2017 at 12:00 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - November 24, 2017 at 1:14 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by vulcanlogician - December 15, 2017 at 8:42 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by downbeatplumb - November 30, 2017 at 3:17 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - November 26, 2017 at 6:34 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 27, 2017 at 10:22 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Abaddon_ire - November 27, 2017 at 12:38 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 27, 2017 at 1:15 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Abaddon_ire - November 27, 2017 at 1:40 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 27, 2017 at 1:48 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Abaddon_ire - November 27, 2017 at 2:07 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 27, 2017 at 2:21 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Abaddon_ire - November 27, 2017 at 2:34 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 27, 2017 at 2:44 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Abaddon_ire - November 27, 2017 at 3:02 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 27, 2017 at 3:21 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Abaddon_ire - November 27, 2017 at 3:29 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 27, 2017 at 3:35 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Abaddon_ire - November 27, 2017 at 3:59 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 27, 2017 at 4:04 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Abaddon_ire - November 27, 2017 at 4:23 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 27, 2017 at 4:35 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Abaddon_ire - November 27, 2017 at 4:44 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 27, 2017 at 4:46 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Abaddon_ire - November 27, 2017 at 4:58 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 27, 2017 at 5:06 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Abaddon_ire - November 27, 2017 at 5:59 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by polymath257 - January 18, 2018 at 9:03 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - January 18, 2018 at 11:18 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by polymath257 - January 18, 2018 at 11:34 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - January 18, 2018 at 11:47 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by polymath257 - January 18, 2018 at 11:56 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - January 19, 2018 at 12:58 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by polymath257 - January 19, 2018 at 2:26 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - January 19, 2018 at 8:18 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - January 22, 2018 at 6:05 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - January 22, 2018 at 6:10 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - January 22, 2018 at 6:27 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - January 22, 2018 at 7:46 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - January 22, 2018 at 8:03 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - January 22, 2018 at 8:59 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - November 27, 2017 at 7:55 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Abaddon_ire - November 27, 2017 at 8:16 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 27, 2017 at 10:03 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - November 27, 2017 at 10:30 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 27, 2017 at 10:59 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - November 28, 2017 at 12:04 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 28, 2017 at 12:08 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - November 28, 2017 at 5:55 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 28, 2017 at 8:55 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - November 28, 2017 at 9:11 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 29, 2017 at 5:42 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Abaddon_ire - November 29, 2017 at 5:52 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - November 29, 2017 at 6:00 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 29, 2017 at 7:49 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - November 30, 2017 at 1:39 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 30, 2017 at 11:55 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - November 30, 2017 at 7:35 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - December 2, 2017 at 1:11 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - December 3, 2017 at 6:07 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - December 3, 2017 at 11:08 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - December 4, 2017 at 6:29 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - December 4, 2017 at 7:03 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - December 4, 2017 at 7:45 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - December 5, 2017 at 2:06 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - December 6, 2017 at 6:49 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - December 8, 2017 at 10:55 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - December 10, 2017 at 6:34 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - December 17, 2017 at 12:13 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - January 3, 2018 at 6:46 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - January 3, 2018 at 9:03 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - January 11, 2018 at 7:53 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - January 17, 2018 at 9:15 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - January 18, 2018 at 8:30 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - January 22, 2018 at 9:00 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - January 22, 2018 at 9:13 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - January 22, 2018 at 9:51 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - January 22, 2018 at 10:34 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - January 22, 2018 at 11:37 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - January 23, 2018 at 8:55 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - November 27, 2017 at 6:37 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 27, 2017 at 9:56 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by The Grand Nudger - November 27, 2017 at 12:41 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Edwardo Piet - November 27, 2017 at 8:00 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by The Grand Nudger - November 27, 2017 at 10:01 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Abaddon_ire - November 28, 2017 at 3:50 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by The Grand Nudger - November 27, 2017 at 11:06 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Edwardo Piet - November 27, 2017 at 11:11 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 27, 2017 at 11:17 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Edwardo Piet - November 28, 2017 at 12:25 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 28, 2017 at 12:29 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Edwardo Piet - November 28, 2017 at 12:37 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 28, 2017 at 12:43 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Abaddon_ire - November 28, 2017 at 12:35 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Edwardo Piet - November 28, 2017 at 12:50 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - November 28, 2017 at 12:54 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by Edwardo Piet - November 28, 2017 at 3:02 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by The Grand Nudger - November 28, 2017 at 8:56 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by The Grand Nudger - November 30, 2017 at 3:10 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by The Grand Nudger - November 30, 2017 at 3:19 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by The Grand Nudger - November 30, 2017 at 8:56 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by The Grand Nudger - December 4, 2017 at 12:00 am
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by RoadRunner79 - December 12, 2017 at 10:07 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by curiosne - December 13, 2017 at 6:34 pm
RE: Street Epistemology - Practice - by The Grand Nudger - January 20, 2018 at 2:16 am

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