Evolution

[Little Rik]

Let us summarize the main points.

1) The welcome has very little to do with what the NDE give you.
The welcome only reflect your free will.
If your free will tell you that God is represented by Jesus then God will show as Jesus or any figure that your free will indicated to you.
As far as you realize that God has no human figure then automatically you will perceive God as pure light or in a spiritual form and the initial welcoming will turn into the reality of how God should be perceived.
This is the beginning and the end of the story related to the welcome.
This welcome is totally irrelevant to the NDE but considering that you put so much energy in this welcoming and the end of it only show how stupid you are.  

And you still haven't answered the fucking question.  How do you know when the welcome is over?  Apparently you don't know!

For all you know, the God that explain reincarnation to Cathleen was just the welcome wagon, and only reflected her prior belief, rather than anything real.  Who can say?  Obviously not you, because you don't know!

You clearly pay infinite attention to a irrelevant point and miss the important ones.
Your stupidity has no limits yog.    

Yeah, sure.  That's why you've danced around the question without answering it.  You're so full of shit.

2) Cathleen NDE clearly show how God explained the reincarnation and karma factor.
Unfortunately your thick brain didn't get it. (when you ever get something?)

Here I show you again how reincarnation and karma works.

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I asked Him, 'Please tell me. When we, your children, come into existence, do we live just one time or do we live over and over?' He said, 'It's like this' He took me to the entrance of a hall. We stood and looked down this long hall and there were millions and millions of doorways leading off this hall. He made me aware that there were many choices available to me and that that choice was the very answer to the question I had asked. The choice was up to ME. He made me understand that I could choose to stay where I was, that I could choose to walk down that hall and pick a door. He made me aware that picking a door would be my exit out of heaven and I would be born again out of the womb of some woman somewhere on Earth. I asked Him, 'But how do I know what door to pick?' His reply was merely that the door that I picked is my choice. He could not reveal what that life would be like. It would be a mystery.

I asked Him, 'Do we HAVE to pick another door and live over and over?' That in itself would be hell to me because what I had experienced, in large part, was very sad and distressful.

He told me some people choose to go back again and again. He doesn't want them to. He wants them to stay with Him but He understands my feelings. He explained that when we choose to leave Him He removes all memories of previous lives because He doesn't want us distressed. He means for life to be a good thing for all of us.

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http://www.nderf.org/Experiences/1cathleen_c_nde.html

As you can see God show that there are millions of exit doors.
These doors represent the choices that people follow in their life so according to one actions he-she will have to go through a particular door which again represent his or her actions in his-her previous life.
This is reincarnation and karma in action yog.

And still you fail to grasp the fundamental question at issue.  I could care less that you can pull up some NDE which supports your view, as we can also pull up NDEs that contradict it.  As long as we have contradictions in the content of NDEs, then none of them are reliable.

Take the following excerpt from the NDE of Lorraine Tutmarc:

In my mind I asked, "Where am I?"
I heard a loud, loving voice say, "This is eternity. This is eternity. You are lost!"
It echoed, "You are lost!"
The strong voice came from behind me, so I didn't see who it was, but I knew it was God's voice.
"What is this?" I again asked in my mind.
He replied, "This is the river of death."
His voice echoed, "This is the river of death."
. . . . . . .
He said, "This is the blood that I shed on the cross for your sins."

Lorraine Tutmarc's Near-Death Experience

Here we have Lorraine testifying that God represented the afterlife as being eternal, or never ending, clearly in contradiction to Cathleen's God.  And the God in Lorraine's NDE clearly identifies himself as the God of the bible who was crucified upon the cross and died for mankind's sins.  

Here's what that God said about the afterlife:

31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.
. . . . . .
41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44 Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not [e]take care of You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Matthew 25:31-46, NASB [emphasis mine]

So we have two NDEs saying completely opposite things.  The question is not does one or the other affirm a certain belief -- it does -- but rather how we can determine which one is presenting a true account of the afterlife, and which is just a "welcome" that simply reflects the person's prior beliefs?  Until you understand this point, all your stupid claims about NDEs will be worthless.

You are free to keep on denying that there is no evidence for reincarnation and karma but the evidence is there whether you like it or no.
Because NDEs are real also what the person who experience the NDE experience something real.  

Dumbass.  You don't even understand the question.

3) I never said that NDEs are not real.
You dream that I said that.
What you don't get it is that the initial welcoming not representing the real face of God has absolutely nothing to do with whether the NDE is real or not.
God can well show you in a different figure in order to give you a welcoming of your choices according to your free will.
That doesn't mean that what God said or show to you is incorrect.

As shown above, this supposed "welcome" can display a God that is totally contrary to what you believe.  Or, is it Cathleen who is reflecting her prior beliefs in a "welcome" that has nothing to do with the real God?  You don't know.  We've already been over this.  You apparently can't tell what is simply a reflection of the person's prior beliefs and what is not.

4) Ritchie does not say that hell is for ever.
In fact he said that life is for ever.
You are the IDIOT that twist his speech so stop being an AH.  

Even more hideous than the bites and kicks they exchanged, were the sexual abuses many were performing in feverish pantomime.  Perversions I had never dreamed of were being vainly attempted all around us.  It was impossible to tell if the howls of frustration which reached us were actual sounds or only the transference of despairing thoughts. Indeed in this disembodied world it didn't seem to matter. Whatever anyone thought, however fleetingly or unwillingly, was instantly apparent to all around him, more completely than words could have expressed it, faster than sound waves could have carried it. ... What was it going to be like, I thought with sudden panic, to live forever where my most private thoughts were not private at all?


Heaven and hell : Dr. George Ritchie's near-death experience [emphasis mine]

5) Clairvoyance is the topic introduced by you therefore is up to you to demonstrate anything you wish to demonstrate.
As far as it concern me so far there is no evidence that a consciousness living in a alive body-brain is able to create a real NDE.

If you're unwilling to defend your claim that NDEs are proof that consciousness leaves the body, that's fine with me.  We'll just have to conclude that your claim was false and that you have no evidence that consciousness leaves the body.

6) People born in a certain situation clearly prove that in the universe there is order and justice.
This is also reiterated in both Cathleen and Ritchie NDEs.

It's obvious from talking to you that you frequently claim that this or that "clearly" indicates something, or that something is "obviously" true, when you don't really have the first fucking clue.  You regularly mistake your mere belief for fact, and constantly evade answering crucial questions, such as the welcome and clairvoyance questions.  So, no, you need to do more than simply claim it.  If you can't demonstrate why what you say is true, then this is just another one of your silly claims, which we can dismiss without a thought.

7) All previous points indicate how dishonest you are both in denying the evidence and giving importance to pointless items while forgetting the important ones.

Yeah, sure.  I'm dishonest, yet you're the one reaching for reasons to dissemble and avoid answering simple questions.  Go blow it out your ass, fucktard.

Every time I read your posts I have to realize that you reach new and new lows.
How low can you get yog?
You already float in the mental sewer.  

Or you have the brain of a 5 years old that can not understand much or you are so dishonest that in order not to sink even further you restore to dirty games such as creating an artificial case saying that that is what I said and then expect me to give evidence.

Why it is so hard to admit that you failed and you are mentally bankrupt?  

If you insist in asking the same question which I already answered several times then I have no choices but to copy and paste the same answer.
However if you wish to play dirty again and again pretending that I did not answer your question then you can well scream louder and louder or write your demented questions in red hoping to impress me.
I got bad news for you yog.

It will not touch me a bit.
All it does is that your brain will sink deeper and deeper in the sewer.

Here I copy and past the same answer once again.


1) The welcome has very little to do with what the NDE give you.
The welcome only reflect your free will.
If your free will tell you that God is represented by Jesus then God will show as Jesus or any figure that your free will indicated to you.
As far as you realize that God has no human figure then automatically you will perceive God as pure light or in a spiritual form and the initial welcoming will turn into the reality of how God should be perceived.
This is the beginning and the end of the story related to the welcome.
This welcome is totally irrelevant to the NDE but considering that you put so much energy in this welcoming and the end of it only show how stupid you are.


1) About your new NDE from Lorraine Tutmarc.

No, it does not contradict Cathleen NDE at all.
You are the idiot that didn't get it.
You haven't showed any contradiction in fact.
All you show is some religious story from Matthew which has absolutely nothing to do with the spirituality that we find in the NDEs.
Corrupted priests changed all the story about Jesus life for obvious reasons which are related to these priests hold on power.
Do me a favor yog.
Next time you try to contradict NDEs use something else.
Avoid religious stories.
They carry no truth.
If you really wish to know Jesus life you should read the The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ.  

2) Clairvoyance?
Again it is up to you to prove that.
You are the one who introduce the topic.  

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The running skirmish between the scarecrow and real people with time on their hands continues.

You mean.......the real people who say that the consciousness is a product of the brain and that the physical death is also the death of your consciousness?

Oh, yeah.
Sure son.
How can you be wrong?  

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Anybody who is suffering in this life it does due to his-her bad karma.
It doesn't matter whether they go through hardship of any kind, premature death, disabilities of any sort and so on.
As physical actions produce reactions according to the laws of physic also humans experience reactions due to their previous action in this or in different lives.
NDEs are real so what these people say is real.  

You can bet that the Israeli that at the moment screw the Palestinians will reborn to experience one more holocaust or any other bad news.
Nothing to do with me VL.
I didn't created the karma or the law of action and reactions.

Take a bow, rather than producing any sort of enlightenment or justice or compassion.....your dog religion has turned you into a petty, cruel and dismissive lunatic.

In the real world, bad things happen to good people..and no more apparently so than when people..like yourself... orchestrate their misery and justify it by claiming that they deserved what they got.

Apparently you seem to know that these good people never did anything wrong in past lives, do you?
Gee, you must be a mind reader.
Do you charge any money for reading minds?