Old Wine in New Bottles

[Fred]

Look, I'd have an opinion if I'd read his books, I just haven't. Really nothing else to say.

You don't even need to read his books. The only important point is that he is something of an expert in one domain pontificating about another domain he has been repeatedly shown not to understand beyond the simplest level. When called on such, he happily concurs, and has a nice little speech about leprachaunology or some other glib bullshit. And nobody seems to be bothered by that, even though the same kind of thing coming the other way brings out the long knives in a trice. It's inconsistent, but it's the way it goes.

You again make references to scientists and figures of religious authority.

When they are germane to the topic, yeah, I do that. I'm a fucking nut that way. Wish I had more company in that regard.

Your every post likens science, specifically materialism

Stop right there, Rhythm, as you just stepped into exactly the pile of shit this is all about. My posts don't liken science to anything. I have no kick against science in any way.

Materialism is not the same thing as science and the fact that it is seen as such is exactly what I do have a problem with and this thread is meant to get at that issue.

(is there some other form of reality that science is engaged in?) and atheism to a belief no better than any other.

Materialism is a philosophy, and a highly problematic one at that. I want to discuss those problems because they bear greatly on future development in a way that is every bit as fucked up as the fundies in the legislature.

You'll have to forgive me when i read lines like

"atheism dropped the beliefs but held tightly to the well-worn, highly effective mythic structure"

"We know what's really Real. We know the One True Way, and unless you are on our team, you are an infidel"

"So Mythic went Industrial Strength, snuck in under the covers with Science,"

"a new faith for a new day"

and feel that you're likening science, materialism, and atheism to a religion. If that's not your intention, then fine, but it very much appears to be the case.

What I am doing is seeking to show how materialism and atheism are as faith-based as a religion and how it got that way. It's a common charge and for good reason, and I'm happy to explicate it.

I don't need a gameball, I have no one here to impress. Since I'm so obviously incapable of interpreting the things you say correctly I ask for clarity.

Fine. When you don't understand what I say, asking for clarity is all good. Assuming what I'm saying before doing so is all bad. Let's stick with the former.

As for the gameball, good to hear because I make a really, really poor one, as folks often learn a little later than they might have wished.

So let's take a look at this and again, please quote me when you respond to a point so I can keep track.