Old Wine in New Bottles

[Fred]

Atheists don't have dogma. We don't have or need a fucking pope.

Whether you need one is debatable, but whether you got one is not. You let those gnu guys muscle their way to the head of the table and whether you like it or not, those outside the choir room are quite happy to do that lumping, just as you guys are quite happy to lump all religious folks together. (emphasis added)

Oh, the delicious irony. Pot, meet kettle.

I'll reiterate. We (atheists) don't need a fucking pope. We're people bound by only a single common denominator: We don't hold beliefs in the existence of deities.

Yo, you can reiterate all ya want, but you are missing the point. You are talking about correctness of terms. I'm talking about the sociological aspect, the view outside the tent. Two different things.

You are making the error of conflating atheism with a host of other ideas. While it may be true that many atheists share similar views with respect to cosmology, evolution, etc, there are many more who do not. That those views are held in common does not make them part of atheism. I'll say it again - we share a single common denominator: We don't hold beliefs in the existence of deities.

See? Nobody gives a figleaf for bald is a hair color lines and all this. You lost them and you aren't getting them back. And you know why?

Dawkins, Hitchens, et al do not speak for me, and I doubt that they would want to. They are merely professing their own learned opinions, nothing more.

Here's why. Oh, yes they do speak for you and there isn't a fucking thing you can do about it. Your protestations are useless and unheeded. They won, and the "atheist, buts" lost. Deal with it, because while you got lost in the definition thickets, the gnus grabbed the ball and ran.

They took the Bright spotlight and having gotten used to it, they aren't going to give it back. So like it or not, as far as the outside world goes, atheism is now them. They're your poster boys whether you buy one or not.

You enjoyed the attention they brought you, so now you gotta pay the piper and it isn't at all your call any more than the moderate religious get to decide whether they will be lumped in with the extremists. Others make the call for themselves, and have. Sorry. Wtf did you expect them to do after all that pounding the gnus put on them? You poisoned your own well, or let the gnus do it for you.

I'm not aligned with them and not aligned with you guys, so standing on the outside it's not hard to see it play out. It's right there to watch.