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Substitutionary Atonement! WTF?
#43
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF?
(June 11, 2018 at 9:14 am)Chad32 Wrote:
(June 11, 2018 at 2:08 am)Godscreated Wrote:  All the references you have given comes from "critics," what were you expecting critics to say and how do you believe that they being critics would impress Christians. 

 Christ's death pays for all the sin of those who accept Him as their savior. He is our atonement, that is covering, when God the father see those who have chosen Christ He sees His Son's perfection and thus we are forgiven of our violations against Him, making us sinless in His eyes. This has been the most important thing in the scriptures from the OT through the NT, it is not a middle age concoction. Also to rescue us from a fallen world someone perfect had to die for us, our death can not even pay/atone for our sins. Our physical death is the result of our sin, the eternal punishment is for those who die with their sin, the Christian dies a forgiven person, sinless.

GC

Yes, there are other stories about gods dying for people and rising back up. Jesus wasn't the only one who did that. 

But He has because He is the real God, the others never died so they couldn't have been risen, they are not real, they are truly the ones who are hiding away.

Chad32 Wrote:And yes, Yahweh is a lot like Human dictators who demand worship, and kill you if you don't. He didn't have to curse the world, but he did. The bible chronicles his repeated failures at dealing with Humanity, though he only ever seems to have one solution to the problem. And even when he sacrifices himself to himself, he admits it won't really work.

 How many time s must the Christians here tell everyone that God doesn't kill people for not worshiping Him. You are judged because you do not accept Jesus as your savior, when you do accept Him you will have no trouble worshiping Him. Worshiping God entails many different things and probably none of the things you would actually admit to. 
 What makes you believe He did not have to curse the world, please show me from the reference book called the Bible because that is the only place that kind of information can come from, I say He had no other choice, man left Him with only the one thing to do, you see there is choice and there are consequences to choice, good and bad.
 The Bible chronicles no such thing, it does show how humanity has failed to listen to Him and the need for a savior for everyone. By the way He did not sacrifice himself to himself, man put Jesus on the cross and killed Him in a extremely violent way. When the Jews sacrificed animals they cut the throat so the animal bleed out quickly and suffered little. Done correctly the animal can still breath and it goes to sleep, kinda' like euthanaisa except for the pain of the cut and with a very sharp knife that isn't as painful as people imagine. God has never said He was wrong because He has never been wrong, millions are saved every year.

GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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Messages In This Thread
Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by ignoramus - June 9, 2018 at 3:12 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by brewer - June 9, 2018 at 9:19 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Chad32 - June 9, 2018 at 10:07 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by vorlon13 - June 9, 2018 at 10:15 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Simon Moon - June 9, 2018 at 1:39 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by henryp - June 9, 2018 at 1:48 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by brewer - June 9, 2018 at 2:45 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Minimalist - June 9, 2018 at 3:08 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by chimp3 - June 9, 2018 at 3:21 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Chad32 - June 9, 2018 at 3:28 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by chimp3 - June 9, 2018 at 3:30 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by AFTT47 - June 9, 2018 at 8:48 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Wyrd of Gawd - June 9, 2018 at 10:24 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by ignoramus - June 9, 2018 at 10:39 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by The Valkyrie - June 10, 2018 at 2:52 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Wyrd of Gawd - June 10, 2018 at 3:18 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Chad32 - June 10, 2018 at 9:08 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Huggy Bear - June 10, 2018 at 9:14 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Chad32 - June 10, 2018 at 9:35 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Huggy Bear - June 10, 2018 at 10:02 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by AFTT47 - June 10, 2018 at 10:13 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Godscreated - June 11, 2018 at 2:08 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Chad32 - June 11, 2018 at 9:14 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Godscreated - June 12, 2018 at 2:08 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Chad32 - June 12, 2018 at 9:10 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Godscreated - June 13, 2018 at 1:16 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Chad32 - June 13, 2018 at 8:34 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Godscreated - June 14, 2018 at 2:01 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Chad32 - June 14, 2018 at 8:15 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Godscreated - June 15, 2018 at 2:49 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Chad32 - June 15, 2018 at 2:00 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Godscreated - June 16, 2018 at 2:14 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Ravenshire - June 17, 2018 at 2:31 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Chad32 - June 17, 2018 at 9:36 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Godscreated - June 18, 2018 at 1:35 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Ravenshire - June 18, 2018 at 3:18 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Godscreated - June 18, 2018 at 4:09 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Ravenshire - June 18, 2018 at 4:43 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Godscreated - June 19, 2018 at 12:54 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Astreja - June 19, 2018 at 1:23 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Chad32 - June 19, 2018 at 9:21 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Godscreated - June 19, 2018 at 11:55 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Chad32 - June 20, 2018 at 8:18 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Succubus - June 20, 2018 at 10:19 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Godscreated - June 21, 2018 at 12:44 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Chad32 - June 21, 2018 at 7:58 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Succubus - June 18, 2018 at 5:27 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by vorlon13 - June 14, 2018 at 5:01 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Godscreated - June 15, 2018 at 12:33 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Astreja - June 18, 2018 at 1:53 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Chad32 - June 10, 2018 at 10:27 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Wyrd of Gawd - June 10, 2018 at 2:30 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Huggy Bear - June 10, 2018 at 7:46 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by MysticKnight - June 10, 2018 at 7:59 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Wyrd of Gawd - June 10, 2018 at 8:21 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Huggy Bear - June 10, 2018 at 7:59 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Huggy Bear - June 10, 2018 at 8:47 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by brewer - June 10, 2018 at 8:50 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Chad32 - June 10, 2018 at 9:01 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by RDK1 - June 10, 2018 at 9:21 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by brewer - June 10, 2018 at 9:25 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by brewer - June 10, 2018 at 9:19 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by RDK1 - June 10, 2018 at 9:30 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by brewer - June 10, 2018 at 10:57 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by The Grand Nudger - June 10, 2018 at 11:35 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Huggy Bear - June 11, 2018 at 7:35 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by ignoramus - June 11, 2018 at 12:08 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Huggy Bear - June 12, 2018 at 12:08 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Drich - June 12, 2018 at 10:20 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by brewer - June 14, 2018 at 11:07 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by The Grand Nudger - June 12, 2018 at 12:10 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Crossless2.0 - June 12, 2018 at 12:17 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Huggy Bear - June 12, 2018 at 1:26 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Wyrd of Gawd - June 12, 2018 at 3:11 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Crossless2.0 - June 12, 2018 at 1:53 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by The Valkyrie - June 12, 2018 at 1:55 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Crossless2.0 - June 12, 2018 at 1:58 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by The Valkyrie - June 12, 2018 at 1:57 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Crossless2.0 - June 12, 2018 at 2:06 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by The Valkyrie - June 12, 2018 at 8:13 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by robvalue - June 14, 2018 at 9:08 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Chad32 - June 14, 2018 at 9:41 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Chad32 - June 16, 2018 at 8:18 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by The Grand Nudger - June 20, 2018 at 12:02 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by robvalue - June 20, 2018 at 12:19 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by KevinM1 - June 20, 2018 at 2:00 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by robvalue - June 20, 2018 at 2:51 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Wyrd of Gawd - June 20, 2018 at 6:28 pm
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by The Grand Nudger - June 21, 2018 at 12:47 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Godscreated - June 22, 2018 at 12:46 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Angrboda - June 22, 2018 at 8:48 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Chad32 - June 22, 2018 at 8:58 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Godscreated - June 23, 2018 at 2:52 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by ignoramus - June 21, 2018 at 3:18 am
RE: Substitutionary Atonement! WTF? - by Haipule - June 21, 2018 at 3:42 am

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