OK, now that I'm off my phone I can do a better job to sum up on life and goals and where we're at
I agree with Gae that there's a middle ground or other variable because neither is better, qol for the few or misery for many?
I agree with wyzas that it's species dependant some just have life, there is no concern (the ability for concern?) for quality or quantity.
But I think for us
Jor stated that QoL is a means to life for life's sake. I agree that it could be a variable QoL as defined within a species.
Dom made a nice point that it's a personal goal - quality of life.
And he gave several good examples such as -
A. I want to be able to remain self sufficient.
B. Quantity of years, even though he's really interested in it.
C. reproduction
that is qualified with until we can take care of everybody. People give birth just to watch the kid die of starvation. That is not a good thing. which I agree with and like
Brian clarified that we're an animal, but not just any animal, that we have some common social structures
He also later added that the ability to adapt would be a goal.
He also made a side point I would like to take a moment to address. People do abandon their kids, and it's a sad thing. My point was that in a case like anecephaly doctors generally encourage aborting the fetus and the parents go through more of a moral struggle and a cat birthing a deformed kitten.
Jor, I wasn't dismissing the importance of any definition, as I even defined what I meant earlier, nor am I dismissing idea becaue I don't like them. I don't have the ideas which is why I made the post.
Brian et all,
As far as all the fucking straw men and goalpost moving and ad hominem, look folks I'm not trying to sell any holy writing or attack science. None of this had/has jack to do with God, I was just trying to find a list of humanist reasons and goals for life. I would really appreciate it if people stopped misrepresenting me and learned that shit isn't that serious and we should all take a lot of things at a more surface level. There's not as many conspiracies as your think, unless you're that one guy who used to post here who was a total conspiracy nut. I'm aware of the definitions used, I'm aware of some of the science involved in biology, I'm aware I'm an apologist and I'm sure you've seen a butt load of them. I'm sorry you've only seen those that can only talk about God and the Holy Bible, and pretend that God makes their life easy and they're perfect. That's BS, but this entire paragraph is moot because it has ZERO to do with the question.
Reproduction and adaptations are traits not goals. If your goal is to reproduce it's because you're a pre-pubescent teen that wants to screw anything with a hole and a warm apple pie will do. If you want to define traits of life I'm certain we can find common ground, but I'm much more interested in Goals. Let me try one last rephrase:
Should there be a species wide goal to bettering quality of life and what would that be OR Is life for the fundamental traits of life (ability to adapt, procreation) enough of a reason to support and encourage it?
I was honestly expecting things like:
-Passing knowledge to offspring is better than just breeding
-Overcoming hardships is inspiration to a society and guides social constructs better than just genetic adaptation
-Increasing life expectancy is good if it's not a burden to the environment the species exists in
-The perfect Rueben is better than sex
all of those are things we were headed towards and I agree with. If you can't wait the 2 minutes it takes to read the post and another 2 minutes to actually cogitate on what's being said then don't post please, or do whatevs. Could we please get back on track though?
Are there any societal goals, universal goals or subjective goals out there that you can list that are better than just existing? Are there any traits that are fundamentally defined as life/existing in your mind?
I agree with Gae that there's a middle ground or other variable because neither is better, qol for the few or misery for many?
I agree with wyzas that it's species dependant some just have life, there is no concern (the ability for concern?) for quality or quantity.
But I think for us
Jor stated that QoL is a means to life for life's sake. I agree that it could be a variable QoL as defined within a species.
Dom made a nice point that it's a personal goal - quality of life.
And he gave several good examples such as -
A. I want to be able to remain self sufficient.
B. Quantity of years, even though he's really interested in it.
C. reproduction
that is qualified with until we can take care of everybody. People give birth just to watch the kid die of starvation. That is not a good thing. which I agree with and like
Brian clarified that we're an animal, but not just any animal, that we have some common social structures
He also later added that the ability to adapt would be a goal.
He also made a side point I would like to take a moment to address. People do abandon their kids, and it's a sad thing. My point was that in a case like anecephaly doctors generally encourage aborting the fetus and the parents go through more of a moral struggle and a cat birthing a deformed kitten.
(November 23, 2018 at 5:23 pm)wyzas Wrote: Emotional pain relief how, for who? I don't think personal comes into it on a species level. But we can take about personal positions.see example above
Jor, I wasn't dismissing the importance of any definition, as I even defined what I meant earlier, nor am I dismissing idea becaue I don't like them. I don't have the ideas which is why I made the post.
Brian et all,
As far as all the fucking straw men and goalpost moving and ad hominem, look folks I'm not trying to sell any holy writing or attack science. None of this had/has jack to do with God, I was just trying to find a list of humanist reasons and goals for life. I would really appreciate it if people stopped misrepresenting me and learned that shit isn't that serious and we should all take a lot of things at a more surface level. There's not as many conspiracies as your think, unless you're that one guy who used to post here who was a total conspiracy nut. I'm aware of the definitions used, I'm aware of some of the science involved in biology, I'm aware I'm an apologist and I'm sure you've seen a butt load of them. I'm sorry you've only seen those that can only talk about God and the Holy Bible, and pretend that God makes their life easy and they're perfect. That's BS, but this entire paragraph is moot because it has ZERO to do with the question.
Reproduction and adaptations are traits not goals. If your goal is to reproduce it's because you're a pre-pubescent teen that wants to screw anything with a hole and a warm apple pie will do. If you want to define traits of life I'm certain we can find common ground, but I'm much more interested in Goals. Let me try one last rephrase:
Should there be a species wide goal to bettering quality of life and what would that be OR Is life for the fundamental traits of life (ability to adapt, procreation) enough of a reason to support and encourage it?
I was honestly expecting things like:
-Passing knowledge to offspring is better than just breeding
-Overcoming hardships is inspiration to a society and guides social constructs better than just genetic adaptation
-Increasing life expectancy is good if it's not a burden to the environment the species exists in
-The perfect Rueben is better than sex
all of those are things we were headed towards and I agree with. If you can't wait the 2 minutes it takes to read the post and another 2 minutes to actually cogitate on what's being said then don't post please, or do whatevs. Could we please get back on track though?
Are there any societal goals, universal goals or subjective goals out there that you can list that are better than just existing? Are there any traits that are fundamentally defined as life/existing in your mind?
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
