RE: If you're an Atheist, what comforts you?
December 4, 2018 at 10:22 am
(This post was last modified: December 4, 2018 at 10:59 am by Angrboda.)
(December 3, 2018 at 3:25 pm)Cherub786 Wrote: If, hypothetically, I were an atheist, my atheism would be incidental and not the basis of my identity. Atheism is rejection of something, you can't build an identity on that.
Therefore, I would have to make my identity based on my race or ethnicity. What else would I have for the basis of my identity except something as superficial as race or ethnicity to contrast myself from other people? No wander ideologies like racism, ethnic nationalism, communism, and other harmful isms are the so appealing to atheists and non-religious people.
I'll point out that in Canaan, the Jews made a part of their identity being different from the other people in the area. While lack of belief in a God may not be a substantial source of identity, cultural or religious difference is, a fact you implicitly acknowledge by emphasizing that it is important to, in your words, "contrast myself from other people." I'll also point out that there is little relation between lacking an identity or having an identity based in something insubstantial and choosing to identify with racism, ethnic nationalism, communism, and so on. One is no more likely to identify with those ism's on that account than one is to identify with say conservatism or capitalism or healthy nationalism. Your argument simply doesn't wash. You appear to have convinced yourself of some bullshit largely because it is comforting to you to believe that bullshit and you wish that it were true so that you can feel good about not being an atheist when you don't have other reasons for doing so. Ultimately it comes down to penis measuring. You want to diminish the size of the atheist peener so that yours will look bigger in comparison. Such concerns always stem from a deap seated fear of inadequacy.
(December 4, 2018 at 7:54 am)Cherub786 Wrote:(December 4, 2018 at 7:42 am)Mr.Obvious Wrote: If you can't find anything else to build yourself upon, except (solely) religion, race or ethnicity, I pity you.
So what should I build myself upon? Secular humanism
Why not? Before you laugh, you need to establish that you have cause for laughter.
(December 4, 2018 at 8:06 am)Cherub786 Wrote:(December 4, 2018 at 7:59 am)Crossless2.0 Wrote: How about your own interests, achievements, and the loves you forge with others? No "isms" involved. No gods, either.
No matter how great an individual I become I will always seek something greater than myself.
It's fine to seek something greater than yourself. Indeed, that is one of the core definitions of existential meaning, to be a part of something larger than yourself. This is all well and good until you start imagining yourself a part of something that doesn't exist, like God. Then your meaning derives solely from your imagination and wishful thinking that narcissistically feeds upon itself, ultimately doing great harm to you and those around you. So you're right in that one should strive to connect with something greater than oneself, such as improving the human condition, but you are wrong when your reaching exceeds the bounds of reality and leads you into delusion and narcissistic self worship.
(December 4, 2018 at 8:06 am)Cherub786 Wrote: I'm a weak, fallen human being with few achievements.
That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. However, I will accept your proposition ex hypothesi.
(December 4, 2018 at 8:06 am)Cherub786 Wrote: There is nothing to atheism but loss and more loss. Loss of identity and any sense of community too.
You cannot lose what you never had, meaning God. Whether atheists are lacking in any of these other areas is an unproven assertion. It does not follow from anything you've said so far and so it is nothing but a free floating assertion. That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
(December 4, 2018 at 8:06 am)Cherub786 Wrote: That's why young non-religious people are turning to toxic ideologies like the "Alt-Right". They need it to fill the void.
Interesting theory. Got any facts to back that up? I do. The fact of the matter is that the right is far more religious than the left. If anybody is turning in large numbers to the alt-right, it is because of religion and God, not because of atheism. You're hoist on your own petard. If the alt-right is a bad thing, then belief in God is a main contributor to that evil.
(December 4, 2018 at 8:32 am)Cherub786 Wrote: As I understand it, the majority of active atheists on this forum are from an older generation that is just content with being grandparents or having a beautiful garden and manicured lawn. They seem to have left behind the excitement a long time ago. I for one hope I never enter into such a condition even if I reach my 90s!
Yep! That's me! Just an old cronie, sitting in a rocking chair on her front porch. Whiling away the hours.
Now get off my lawn!
(December 4, 2018 at 8:45 am)Cherub786 Wrote:(December 4, 2018 at 8:36 am)Mr.Obvious Wrote: You should try it.
Nah dude. I'm not just a religious person, I'm pretty much a mystic. If you saw me you'd see a man with shoulder length black hair, a full beard, dressed in a white robe and wool shawl, with a rosary in his right hand, head covered with a skullcap. That is a kind of indication at what kind of thinking and way I'm upon. You can't go from that to straight up atheist. It's a 180 degree difference.
You can keep all that and still be an atheist, you know. Apparently your problem is not a lack of options but a lack of knowledge about those options.
(December 4, 2018 at 9:09 am)Cherub786 Wrote: As for meditation, it cannot be compared to the kind of worship we do which requires a certain mindset, belief in God, to Whom we direct our complaints, sorrows, beg, cry, and generally debase ourselves. I've never seen that done in yoga or meditation. So how can they result in the same psychological state?
Meditation doesn't bring about an actual improvement in your personality, it's purpose is to achieve calmness and get rid of anxiety. I'm sure that's why loads of people smoke pot too.
Sometimes it's good to feel anxiety and the inner pain, that's what being human is about, that's what being alive is about. I don't agree with those eastern philosophies which are all about numbing oneself to feeling as the way to end suffering.
So I consider such exercises as meaningless and deficient compared to genuine religious mystical experiences and visions.
Again, your failure lies in ignorance and a lack of imagination. Some atheists who are Buddhist in their outlook meditate to get in touch with the true and ultimate nature of reality. This is no different than what you do, except that you and they have a different view as to what constitutes ultimate reality. These both stem from the same source. As evolved animals, we recognize that having accurate information about our environment allows us to better predict the consequences of our actions and thus promotes our survival. It's genetic. You do what you do because of your genes, and they do what they do, which is essentially the same thing, just in a different form, because of their genes. You simply believe that what they do is different and less than what you do because you're ignorant and believe a lot of bullshit.
(December 4, 2018 at 9:28 am)Cherub786 Wrote:(December 4, 2018 at 8:56 am)Crossless2.0 Wrote: Your objection that we have left behind "the excitement" strikes me as puerile.
Well let's see. It's all subjective but based on my observation of the grandparent generation. The typical atheist among them live in suburbia and focus their energies on gardening, cooking, if they are better off financially, touring the world, playing golf. The retired life. When exactly are they doing anything meaningful apart from enjoying themselves? Now sure they will say they deserve it after a long life spent laboring away countless hours. But if they engaged in religious or even political activities during their youth or middle age, they would not have given up those activities and gone into retirement.
Your characterization of older people is based solely in your imagination. You claim that older people have given up political activity and that this is largely the province of youth and middle age. This is contradicted by the rather well known fact that older people turn out to vote in greater numbers than the young and the middle aged. It would be a stretch to suggest that older people are politically less active except on this one measure of political activity, and so it is more likely that you are simply wrong on the facts, due to ignorance and belief in things you simply imagined.
Quote:For nearly 40 years, the turnout of voters over age 45 has significantly outpaced that of younger Americans. In the 2016 presidential election, for example, 71 percent of Americans over 65 voted, compared with 46 percent among 18- to 29-year-olds, according to U.S. Census Bureau data. While analysts point to increased energy among younger voters over the past couple of elections, people over 65 continue to show up at the polls far more than any other age group.
The Immense Power of the Older Voter