Is tolerance intolerant?

[bennyboy]

While I don't know specifically which programs or strategies you're talking about, nor that the goal is black Einsteins, if education and policies aimed at addressing things like black poverty are on that list, then affirmative action is a much more cost effective strategy toward achieving equality in our society.  The other methods work, but cost so much money that the cost is almost prohibitive.  In addition, affirmative action is an effective and cheap method of getting there.  Maybe cost shouldn't be the only consideration, but it certainly needs to be among the considerations in choosing how to address racial inequity.  If you are thinking of methods that are both as effective as affirmative action and as cost effective, then I haven't seen you mention them.  Matter of fact, I don't recall any alternatives being offered by you.  What alternatives do you have in mind?

My plan, as I've outlined it in the previous thread about race/racism, is to focus on productivity. I'd start with prison release programs, with strong incentives for staying clean during probation, low interest loans for entrepreneurship in depressed areas, and so on. The way I figure it, if you can save taxpayer money on a man's incarceration, you can put some of that back into the community.

I actually benefit from a program here which allows me to borrow low-interest loans because we generate a lot of jobs in the community. Sometimes, I almost feel we work for the local government more than we work for our own financial prosperity. But those tens of thousands of dollars per year turn into jobs that pay out that much per month to local workers.

The biggest problem as I see it is hoarding. America's GDP is staggering-- enough for sure to allow for a decent quality of life for all, and still allow the richest to be much richer than any person needs to be. When resources are tight, someone's going to be at the top of the dogpile and someone's going to be at the bottom.

How does one measure "devalu[ing] the real achievements?"  What metric are you using here, and what evidence do you have that this is an actual effect being felt in society?  To quote the oft repeated phrase, "citation needed."  I will also point out that, whatever effect it has on the perception of the affirmative action recipient, which may be negligible, that perception and effect will not likely carry over to the children of the affirmative action recipient.  However, the benefits of affirmative action will carry over to the children.  And that is a key part of the utility of affirmative action, and something that I haven't seen you address, except in the breach by noting that the carry over between generations resulting from black poverty is formidable.  As a recent article noted, the most gifted among the poor graduate at a lower rate than the least gifted of the rich.  All things being equal, it is better to be the child of well off parents than simply having talent.   It seems you've been making the case for affirmative action, rather than against it, because you've been largely ignoring the generational effects.

If you measure the mean income in black families, then as successful black graduates branch off and establish themselves, those numbers will look better. But the source communities are likely to stay broken. Changing the racial constituency of power is one thing, but changing class immobility overall is another.

I'll also point out that a parallel problem occurs in industry and politics.  Women are under-represented on corporate boards and in certain industries, and also among the Republican party in terms of elected Republican officials.  What exactly is your remedy for Republicans?  Suck it up?  Ignore the problem because promoting female politicians would in some way lead to a devaluing of women politicians?  Male Republicans should wear dresses?  A massive re-education campaign for Republican voters should be undertaken, complete with re-education camps ringed with barbed wire and Russian style Gulags?  What is your answer to them, benny?  And how are you going to address the disparity in female participation at high levels of corporate leadership?  Or are you just content to see things stay as they are?

I can talk with some competence on the corporate life, at least in Asia. It's essentially an exchange of soul for money, to a degree that no healthy mother could do at least until her kids leave the house. Yeah, there are a lot of BMWs driving around, but they're driving to work at 6:00am, and back home around 11:00am-- if, that is, a superior doesn't make them stay out drinking soju until 2:00. To be very blunt about it, I'd say the only way a woman can manage to get into upper management in Korea is either to forgo a family, or nepotism.

My answer to the Republicans is to couch everything in nationalist/populist terms. Releasing black prisoners isn't a PC gift, it's a clever economic move meant to get them off their asses and raise the almighty GDP. Environmental jobs programs come from the military defense budget-- we are going to choke out the Middle East by rendering their only product useless.

Women in politics is easy-- just wait about two elections, and see how many female, gay, trans, latino, black voters etc. are elected. Either Trump makes a power move right here, right now, or I think it's likely that the dreaded brown wave is going to completely capsize Republican politics in the next 20 years.

As for the wall-- fuck that, people are a valuable resource. I'd follow Rome's example-- you love the country so much, here's a pair of boots and a rifle. You do your tour, you get to stay. Your kid does his, and he comes home to a parade and a passport.

(Keep in mind, I'm saying how I would couch these issues if I were a Republican, which I'm not)

I'll also note that this "from the cradle" approach that you seem to be vaguely advocating would have to start with subsidizing poor mothers because racial inequality starts in the womb with fetal development.  Yet this is precisely what society, read: racists, don't want to do.  How exactly are you going to get this from the cradle approach off the ground, what does it look like, how is it going to work, and how are you going to convince people who are opposed to it (conservatives, sexists, and racists) to support it?

Don't make it handouts. Make support contingent on a contract. In exchange for financial aid, a woman is expected to fulfill a set list of duties, as the caretaker of a future soldier/academic/laborer of the state. In essence, she become an employee of the state. In exchange for fulfilling these duties, she must be rewarded and honored. This is an important way in which she as a citizen can contribute the the strength of the state. You have a big mother's day parade once a year, wave flags, and chant her praises.

You can see where I'm going with this-- crank up the entire production line on all levels, and use it to expand or maintain American influence around the world-- pretty much everything but the ovens, yeah?

On what basis are black kids getting accepted to Harvard, when their school grades and SAT scores are an order of magnitude lower than those of Asian kids?  See, my view is that a university is an academic institution, and that applications should be accepted based on their academic achievements and potential.

(scroll about 1/3 of the way down)
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018/...at-scores/

The average Asian applicant scored a fair bit better than accepted African-American students.