(March 28, 2019 at 8:25 am)Drich Wrote:(March 27, 2019 at 1:43 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: I'm not estimating that God is showing disinterest, for a start. In the scriptures quoted, God is clearly showing an interest - this is part of what prevents God from being altruistic. In order for him to be so, he would have to show disinterest (from the definition you quoted)
I think a fair point is that 'selfless' and 'selfish' are not necessarily opposites. That God is not selfless is shown by his requirements that human beings do and believe certain things. This doesn't make God necessarily selfish, but he does indicate a certain level of self-interest which - again - precludes his being altruistic according to the definition you quoted.
Boru
How is it 'self interest' if it is the truth? Is expecting people to seek and follow the truth selfish? While helping people on a global scale such as God does, is it wrong to expect people to act and understand who and how God works if for no other reason than to be counter productive to what it is God is doing?
We seem to be at cross-purposes. Truth or falsity has nothing to do with self interest, and you seem to be having trouble distinguishing between 'selfish' and 'self interest'. Furthermore, I'm not saying that God's described behaviour is wrong or inimical in any way, merely that it isn't altruistic. God expects things in return for his help, which is the antithesis of altruism. It may be perfectly reasonable for God to 'expect people to act and understand who and how God works' in order for God to help them. But the very expectation precludes altruism.
Suppose I give a homeless person $10 000. If I hand it to him, and walk away and never think about it again, that's altruism. If I hand him the money and say, 'You have to spend this on food, housing and medical care', it's still a gift that accomplishes some good, but it isn't altruistic. ANYthing with conditions attached - no matter how reasonable those conditions are - cannot, by definition, be altruistic.
Boru
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