[Serious] The Good

[Angrboda]

I'm not responsible for any argument pointing out that Aristotle is wrong until it is established that Aristotle is correct.  If you want to argue that Aristotle is correct, by all means make your case.  Remember, you're the one defending Aristotle's ideas as a necessary prerequisite to your argument about function, therefore you carry the burden of proof in showing Aristotle to be correct. Where have I used my own subjective feeling instead of engaging in actual argument?  Now you're the one that's being insulting.  

As to your  first point, if final causes don't exist in the thing itself then final causes don't exist.  If final causes are determined by the contingent facts which exist apart from the thing itself, then final causes don't exist in the things in and of themselves.  Final causes are determined by the contingent facts which exist apart from the thing itself.  Therefore, final causes do not exist.  QED.

Now, as to whether what I said was insulting or a lecture, it is arguments which back things up, not that other people say them.  As noted, the paragraph you quoted didn't even engage the arguments I made.  If your only point in quoting others is to show that your ideas are "backed up" then indeed you are making an argument from authority and my complaint is fully acquitted.  My point was not to insult you but to suggest that you are not engaging what I am actually writing and instead just lobbing canned ideas at me.  Your response seems to rather suggest I was correct.  If I had simply suggested that you were not thinking, and that was all that I said, that indeed would be insulting, but that is not at all what I said.  I said that you were not engaging my actual points and I attributed that to your not doing any actual thinking.   I may have been mistaken, but it was not an insult.  Your interpreting it as something else is purely your own folly.

And I think you are not engaging with my points, and merely making assertions. No doubt these assertions seem clear to you.

Now you're just completely full of shit. In my earlier reply, I not only pointed out that you weren't engaging my arguments but also pointed out how the arguments in the text that you quoted are wrong. If you're simply going to lie and pretend that I have done things that I have not, then you would indeed be wise to quit the field. I'll note, simply for completeness, that the statement that I am merely making assertions is itself an assertion not backed by any actual argument, and my pointing this out both serves as refutation in that it points out the hollowness of your tu quoque as well as provide counter-examples to your claim. And I will also point out that my previous post contained an argument which soundly refutes any and all arguments in favor of final causes, and rather than actually engage that argument, you choose to whine and make patently and demonstrably false claims. Jesus bloody Christ, what the fuck is wrong with you? The only explanations I can see for your ignoring my grappling at great length with your prior arguments are not flattering to you. So if you want to quit, do so, but don't pretend that it's because I have not engaged your actual points because that is simply not so.

Indeed, the very words in the post you quoted, "as to your first point," clearly show that I was engaging your arguments and that the idea that I have not been doing so is a callous lie that is refuted by the very post you are quoting!

Anyway, we'll all await with baited breath your acquittal of Aristotle's conception of being and existence as being good, as until you do so, your entire line of argument is unsupported and can be simply dismissed.