RE: Do you wish there's a god?
April 9, 2019 at 9:30 am
(This post was last modified: April 9, 2019 at 9:34 am by Acrobat.)
(April 9, 2019 at 9:18 am)Thoreauvian Wrote:(April 9, 2019 at 9:12 am)Acrobat Wrote: Try harder. In my view you haven’t really thought through your belief in morality as subjective, and that you’re going to stumble your way into inconsistencies and contradictions. Trying to work through those, would probably help you get a better grasp on what’s true here.
You clearly take issues with suggesting your moral beliefs, are akin to taste, like your likes and dislikes. In my view thats because like me you recognize it as objective, even if some other part of you wants to deny this, or finds it problematic for your other beliefs, like your atheism.
I think Robvalue and other atheists who think morality is subjective are laboring under a false dichotomy. Absolute objectivity or subjectivity are not the only choices. Objectivity can be relative too. I think it is perfectly reasonable to be an atheist who supports objective morality rather than moral nihilism if one acknowledges that morality is relative to human concerns rather than merely subjective. We do, after all, possess common objective characteristics, our human nature, upon which we can build our moral considerations.
I think atheists that subscribe to moral realism, are sort of like YECs. They might have developed their own systems and libraries of arguments defending and articulating their views, and this might work to satisfy other YECs, but is seen as convoluted, and contradictory nonsense to everyone outside their circle.
I think atheists who believe in objective morality, believe it more so because they want it along with their atheism to be true, than for any truly compelling reason. They think they’ve resolved the is ought problem, and fail to recognize why they continually fail to resolve it.
(April 9, 2019 at 9:25 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: No, it isn't. The faithful constantly refer to human morality as subjective in order to posit what they mistakenly refer to as their gods objective morality.
Now we're galloping off to teleology. Hey, guess what...there's such a concept as a natural teleology, as well. Still no gods required. A utilitarian realist, for example..posits that morality as a phenomena is best explained by the purpose it serves rather than whatever circumstances by which it may have arisen.
I'm going to stop you here, for a moment, to let something sink in. You don't actually like talking about these things. Your interest is strictly limited to your own tiny band of misconceptions.
Then clearly you don’t understand the faithful. If you asked them directly you’d find that nearly all theists believe morality is objective, pretty much every Christian apologist argues for this.
Where as atheists like rob who believe morality is subjective are a dime a dozen.