To US Veterans...

[Gawdzilla Sama]

-and even then, lol.  

It's pretty much always been this way, since the invention of the written word..at least, people in charge of soldiers have complained not only that it's hard to get them to follow orders, but that it's hard to get them to do anything at all.

I teamed up with a Marine staff sergeant to make one of his troopers see the light once. He humped an 80 pound bag of concrete mix up and down a ramp until he crumbled. He was begging by the end.