Alpha Course Week 3 24th October
Some developments this week, feel that I have been sussed out. As soon as I arrived I was called over for a chat by the vicar. Standing a slight distance away but clearly an observer was the “father” I mentioned in previous posts who I had discovered was now a church “elder”. He asked me how I thought it was going and I said that it had got a bit hostile and personal last time (not on my part see my previous posts). I was offered a choice of going into a smaller discussion group with just me, the vicar, his wife and the “father” (sorry to use these pseudonyms but I am trying not to reveal any names) where they could “answer my questions” - of course conveniently separated from the rest of the group who might be persuaded by my arguments (that's my interpretation). The other option was to allow others to speak more in the existing group – others who might have burning issues but were inhibited from speaking out because of me. Of course it was all done in a polite and civilised way with friendliness and smiles but the message was clear – be separated from the other members of the Alpha course during the group discussions or pipe down in the current groups. Since I had already decided to say little or nothing this week round I said that I wanted to remain with the current group and that I would say less and listen more. I did point out that in both the previous weeks I had kept quiet for a good 10 – 15 mins and only spoke up when there did not seem to be any discussion worthy of the name.
Next the meal. It was chicken curry and rice with some naan bread. Very nice although I prefer a bit more spice in my curry but understand that if you are catering for large number it is going to be mild. During the meal, one of the ladies preparing it who is a good friend of my cousin came over and gave me a big ostentatious kiss on the cheek, I get the feeling that there are some in the church who are not happy with how I have been treated and this was her way of saying f**k you to the others but it was very welcome nonetheless. This week I deliberately sat at the end of the table so I could talk to more people and had a reasonable chat with the four ladies on my left and right. I asked them how they felt it was going and what they were getting out of it and received the same response that I'd received before – it was a chance to ask questions. As before I found this entirely unconvincing – surely they have their bible groups where they can do this – and besides, in the group discussion when I kept quiet there seemed absolutely no desire to do this.
There were 22 people on the course this week. One thing that struck me that I hadn't noticed before was the imbalance between men and women. There were only 7 men including myself the vicar, senior lay-person, and “father”.
The talk.
The topic this week was “How can we have faith”. The talk was not given by the vicar but by a senior member of the church, a man who is employed by the church but is not himself a clergyman. A sort of lay second in command to the vicar I suppose. He started with his personal testimony, - I'm getting too hear a lot of these - then spoke about knowing he was married because he has a certificate and pictures, and knowing that he has a relation ship with Jesus because there is a “certificate” (the bible), thus equating his certain knowledge that he is married with his certain knowledge of his relationship with Jesus. Tempting to point out that his wife is visible and you can see and touch her (in fact she was there). As in previous weeks the structure of the course was followed up to a point, but then it became just another preach about Jesus and the gift of eternal life, God giving his son to die for us etc.
The Group Discussion
Noticed this week that there were even more people in my group – 15 whilst the other group had only 6.
Not much to report this week I'm afraid. When the “discussion” started the vicar announced that he was going to conduct it by having a book that you had to hold if you wanted to speak ( a sort of talking stick). He started by passing the book to his right and inviting anyone to pass comment on the talk. The book very quickly passed from hand to hand (including mine – remember I had decided not to say much to start with) and ended back with him. So the vicar then posed a question “Do you feel more love of God than fear of God?”. The book still passed round pretty quickly with a few people briefly saying they felt more love (surprise surprise) until it arrived with “father” whereupon he launched into a 6 minute monologue (yes I timed him!), starting with his testimony (again!– even I'm getting tired of it – there surely cannot be a single member of this church who could not repeat it by heart) followed up by a bit of preaching. This seemed to be the signal for each successive person to give their personal testimony and it got quite monotonous – remember you cannot talk if you haven't got the book. The book went round a couple more times in similar fashion with the questions to be answered “How has Jesus changed you?” and “What does your relationship with God mean to you?” Rather than say “He hasn't” and “Nothing” I simply passed the book on. In fact I said nothing at all this week. I should mention the young chap who I thought may be non-christian from the first week. He was there with his wife who is a church member and his thinking seemed to be a sort of new age lets all get along together view. It was nice to have someone who was not just following the crowd but I don't think he is going to be an ally for me. I suspect that he is considered a much more promising prospect for conversion than I am and I wouldn't be surprised to arrive one week to see some “good news”. That's more or less it. It did not seem any different to a bible study class with me as an interloper. I felt quite angry and that the “talking book” format was designed in part to marginalize me and expressed my annoyance to the vicar who of course denied it – the smiles and friendliness are getting a bit more forced where he is concerned.
Next week vicar is on holiday and the discussion is being led by the “father”. He spoke at length on 2 further occasions giving him an aggregate talk-time of 14 mins. Yes ! 14 minutes of uninterrupted preaching when the time allotted to the whole period is 45 mins. That little nugget of information may crop up next week when I intended to fully participate. I have learned that the vicar is on holiday next week and the group will be led by the “father” - he had better be prepared for some searching questions – I'm going to spend the week boning up (that's cramming if you're American) .
That's all for this week - thanks for you comments.
Regards
pgrimes15
Some developments this week, feel that I have been sussed out. As soon as I arrived I was called over for a chat by the vicar. Standing a slight distance away but clearly an observer was the “father” I mentioned in previous posts who I had discovered was now a church “elder”. He asked me how I thought it was going and I said that it had got a bit hostile and personal last time (not on my part see my previous posts). I was offered a choice of going into a smaller discussion group with just me, the vicar, his wife and the “father” (sorry to use these pseudonyms but I am trying not to reveal any names) where they could “answer my questions” - of course conveniently separated from the rest of the group who might be persuaded by my arguments (that's my interpretation). The other option was to allow others to speak more in the existing group – others who might have burning issues but were inhibited from speaking out because of me. Of course it was all done in a polite and civilised way with friendliness and smiles but the message was clear – be separated from the other members of the Alpha course during the group discussions or pipe down in the current groups. Since I had already decided to say little or nothing this week round I said that I wanted to remain with the current group and that I would say less and listen more. I did point out that in both the previous weeks I had kept quiet for a good 10 – 15 mins and only spoke up when there did not seem to be any discussion worthy of the name.
Next the meal. It was chicken curry and rice with some naan bread. Very nice although I prefer a bit more spice in my curry but understand that if you are catering for large number it is going to be mild. During the meal, one of the ladies preparing it who is a good friend of my cousin came over and gave me a big ostentatious kiss on the cheek, I get the feeling that there are some in the church who are not happy with how I have been treated and this was her way of saying f**k you to the others but it was very welcome nonetheless. This week I deliberately sat at the end of the table so I could talk to more people and had a reasonable chat with the four ladies on my left and right. I asked them how they felt it was going and what they were getting out of it and received the same response that I'd received before – it was a chance to ask questions. As before I found this entirely unconvincing – surely they have their bible groups where they can do this – and besides, in the group discussion when I kept quiet there seemed absolutely no desire to do this.
There were 22 people on the course this week. One thing that struck me that I hadn't noticed before was the imbalance between men and women. There were only 7 men including myself the vicar, senior lay-person, and “father”.
The talk.
The topic this week was “How can we have faith”. The talk was not given by the vicar but by a senior member of the church, a man who is employed by the church but is not himself a clergyman. A sort of lay second in command to the vicar I suppose. He started with his personal testimony, - I'm getting too hear a lot of these - then spoke about knowing he was married because he has a certificate and pictures, and knowing that he has a relation ship with Jesus because there is a “certificate” (the bible), thus equating his certain knowledge that he is married with his certain knowledge of his relationship with Jesus. Tempting to point out that his wife is visible and you can see and touch her (in fact she was there). As in previous weeks the structure of the course was followed up to a point, but then it became just another preach about Jesus and the gift of eternal life, God giving his son to die for us etc.
The Group Discussion
Noticed this week that there were even more people in my group – 15 whilst the other group had only 6.
Not much to report this week I'm afraid. When the “discussion” started the vicar announced that he was going to conduct it by having a book that you had to hold if you wanted to speak ( a sort of talking stick). He started by passing the book to his right and inviting anyone to pass comment on the talk. The book very quickly passed from hand to hand (including mine – remember I had decided not to say much to start with) and ended back with him. So the vicar then posed a question “Do you feel more love of God than fear of God?”. The book still passed round pretty quickly with a few people briefly saying they felt more love (surprise surprise) until it arrived with “father” whereupon he launched into a 6 minute monologue (yes I timed him!), starting with his testimony (again!– even I'm getting tired of it – there surely cannot be a single member of this church who could not repeat it by heart) followed up by a bit of preaching. This seemed to be the signal for each successive person to give their personal testimony and it got quite monotonous – remember you cannot talk if you haven't got the book. The book went round a couple more times in similar fashion with the questions to be answered “How has Jesus changed you?” and “What does your relationship with God mean to you?” Rather than say “He hasn't” and “Nothing” I simply passed the book on. In fact I said nothing at all this week. I should mention the young chap who I thought may be non-christian from the first week. He was there with his wife who is a church member and his thinking seemed to be a sort of new age lets all get along together view. It was nice to have someone who was not just following the crowd but I don't think he is going to be an ally for me. I suspect that he is considered a much more promising prospect for conversion than I am and I wouldn't be surprised to arrive one week to see some “good news”. That's more or less it. It did not seem any different to a bible study class with me as an interloper. I felt quite angry and that the “talking book” format was designed in part to marginalize me and expressed my annoyance to the vicar who of course denied it – the smiles and friendliness are getting a bit more forced where he is concerned.
Next week vicar is on holiday and the discussion is being led by the “father”. He spoke at length on 2 further occasions giving him an aggregate talk-time of 14 mins. Yes ! 14 minutes of uninterrupted preaching when the time allotted to the whole period is 45 mins. That little nugget of information may crop up next week when I intended to fully participate. I have learned that the vicar is on holiday next week and the group will be led by the “father” - he had better be prepared for some searching questions – I'm going to spend the week boning up (that's cramming if you're American) .
That's all for this week - thanks for you comments.
Regards
pgrimes15
