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The Struggle to do Good
RE: The Struggle to do Good
(June 2, 2020 at 9:44 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: The notion that morality changes when the subject changes is the definition of moral subjectivism.

You didn't ask me if God changed His mind about His moral values. You asked me if God had different moral values, then would He have different moral values.

That being said, part of the definition of God is necessary existence (cannot fail to exist). This means He exists in all possible worlds, including the actualized world, and that He is intrinsically the same in each one of these worlds.

Quote:Then there's nothing bad about murder.  The good or bad making property is whether a subject has told you to do so, or refrain from doing so.  

Wow you're really bad at reasoning.

If objective moral values and duties are indeed ontologically grounded in God, then of course "murder is wrong" would flow from Him through commands and the conscience that He has given us.

Quote:Which, again, is not an epistemological framework

You don't know what epistemology is then. Epistemology is the study of the nature of knowledge. Ontology is the study of the nature of existence. An epistemological framework is way of obtaining knowledge. Moral intuition, or conscience, is how we come to know objective moral values and duties which are ontologically grounded in God's nature.

Quote:I want you to take a breath here and consider something.

Honestly, I think I'm done talking to pseudo-intellectuals. I'm going to go watch my stocks.
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Messages In This Thread
The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - May 30, 2020 at 9:37 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by ignoramus - May 30, 2020 at 9:57 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - May 30, 2020 at 10:05 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - May 30, 2020 at 10:16 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Peebo-Thuhlu - May 30, 2020 at 11:03 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Anomalocaris - May 31, 2020 at 12:41 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by no one - May 31, 2020 at 12:52 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by chimp3 - May 31, 2020 at 12:56 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 1:19 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by chimp3 - May 31, 2020 at 2:05 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 2:22 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by chimp3 - May 31, 2020 at 2:46 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Anomalocaris - May 31, 2020 at 8:22 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by no one - May 31, 2020 at 1:25 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 1:33 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by GUBU - May 31, 2020 at 12:02 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 1:06 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Abaddon_ire - May 31, 2020 at 5:18 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by GUBU - May 31, 2020 at 8:05 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by arewethereyet - May 31, 2020 at 2:10 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by no one - May 31, 2020 at 2:16 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by no one - May 31, 2020 at 2:28 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Shuffle - May 31, 2020 at 2:30 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 2:50 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by chimp3 - May 31, 2020 at 2:55 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 2:58 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by chimp3 - May 31, 2020 at 3:06 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 3:07 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by chimp3 - May 31, 2020 at 3:09 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Mister Agenda - June 1, 2020 at 12:45 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by arewethereyet - May 31, 2020 at 2:51 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 2:52 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Peebo-Thuhlu - May 31, 2020 at 3:01 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Fake Messiah - May 31, 2020 at 3:34 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 11:36 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - May 31, 2020 at 11:41 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Mr.wizard - May 31, 2020 at 8:14 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Succubus#2 - May 31, 2020 at 9:41 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Rhizomorph13 - May 31, 2020 at 9:45 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Succubus#2 - May 31, 2020 at 9:52 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Architect Of Fate - May 31, 2020 at 9:46 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Abaddon_ire - May 31, 2020 at 9:51 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Shuffle - May 31, 2020 at 3:52 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - May 31, 2020 at 11:53 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Abaddon_ire - May 31, 2020 at 8:35 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by onlinebiker - May 31, 2020 at 4:31 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Gwaithmir - May 31, 2020 at 4:35 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Little lunch - May 31, 2020 at 4:49 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Mr.wizard - May 31, 2020 at 5:07 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Shuffle - May 31, 2020 at 5:55 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Mr.wizard - May 31, 2020 at 6:08 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Deesse23 - May 31, 2020 at 6:00 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Abaddon_ire - May 31, 2020 at 6:39 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Little lunch - May 31, 2020 at 9:31 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Abaddon_ire - May 31, 2020 at 10:32 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by tackattack - May 31, 2020 at 6:55 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Abaddon_ire - May 31, 2020 at 9:11 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by possibletarian - June 7, 2020 at 8:29 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Succubus#2 - May 31, 2020 at 8:29 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brewer - May 31, 2020 at 8:59 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by qb1base - May 31, 2020 at 10:08 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brewer - May 31, 2020 at 11:07 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by tackattack - May 31, 2020 at 10:32 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by GUBU - May 31, 2020 at 11:51 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Deesse23 - May 31, 2020 at 2:23 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Grandizer - May 31, 2020 at 2:37 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - May 31, 2020 at 6:04 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Rhizomorph13 - May 31, 2020 at 6:41 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Shuffle - May 31, 2020 at 6:48 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - May 31, 2020 at 7:02 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Architect Of Fate - May 31, 2020 at 7:14 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - May 31, 2020 at 8:06 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by no one - May 31, 2020 at 8:10 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - May 31, 2020 at 8:12 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Architect Of Fate - May 31, 2020 at 8:29 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - May 31, 2020 at 8:38 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Paleophyte - May 31, 2020 at 8:42 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Abaddon_ire - May 31, 2020 at 9:06 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - May 31, 2020 at 8:45 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Abaddon_ire - May 31, 2020 at 9:54 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Paleophyte - June 1, 2020 at 12:28 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by onlinebiker - June 1, 2020 at 7:41 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by arewethereyet - June 1, 2020 at 7:45 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by onlinebiker - June 1, 2020 at 7:51 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by arewethereyet - June 1, 2020 at 7:55 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by onlinebiker - June 1, 2020 at 8:01 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by arewethereyet - June 1, 2020 at 8:06 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by onlinebiker - June 1, 2020 at 8:07 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Little lunch - June 1, 2020 at 8:07 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 1, 2020 at 8:32 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Gwaithmir - June 1, 2020 at 8:48 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by onlinebiker - June 1, 2020 at 8:51 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 1, 2020 at 9:01 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by onlinebiker - June 1, 2020 at 9:03 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 1, 2020 at 9:04 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by onlinebiker - June 1, 2020 at 9:09 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 1, 2020 at 9:18 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by onlinebiker - June 2, 2020 at 6:47 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Abaddon_ire - June 2, 2020 at 7:18 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brewer - June 1, 2020 at 9:07 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 2, 2020 at 12:28 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Paleophyte - June 2, 2020 at 11:05 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Architect Of Fate - June 3, 2020 at 9:10 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 2, 2020 at 6:51 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 2, 2020 at 6:59 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Abaddon_ire - June 2, 2020 at 7:25 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Duty - June 2, 2020 at 6:53 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 2, 2020 at 6:54 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 2, 2020 at 6:59 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 2, 2020 at 7:09 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Architect Of Fate - June 2, 2020 at 7:20 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 2, 2020 at 8:04 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 2, 2020 at 8:27 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Abaddon_ire - June 2, 2020 at 8:31 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 2, 2020 at 8:32 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 2, 2020 at 8:59 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 2, 2020 at 9:04 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 2, 2020 at 9:12 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 2, 2020 at 9:17 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 2, 2020 at 9:31 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 2, 2020 at 9:44 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Architect Of Fate - June 2, 2020 at 10:00 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 2, 2020 at 10:08 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Sal - June 2, 2020 at 12:28 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Abaddon_ire - June 2, 2020 at 4:02 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 2, 2020 at 10:02 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Architect Of Fate - June 2, 2020 at 10:03 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 2, 2020 at 10:18 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Architect Of Fate - June 2, 2020 at 10:28 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Nay_Sayer - June 3, 2020 at 9:14 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Architect Of Fate - June 3, 2020 at 9:18 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 3, 2020 at 9:27 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by possibletarian - June 5, 2020 at 6:22 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Grandizer - June 5, 2020 at 6:29 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by possibletarian - June 5, 2020 at 7:14 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Little lunch - June 5, 2020 at 10:08 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Abaddon_ire - June 6, 2020 at 6:41 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Foxaèr - June 6, 2020 at 8:48 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Mr.wizard - June 6, 2020 at 9:15 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Foxaèr - June 6, 2020 at 9:18 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 6, 2020 at 9:43 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Foxaèr - June 6, 2020 at 9:46 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 6, 2020 at 9:51 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 6, 2020 at 8:03 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Mr.wizard - June 6, 2020 at 8:50 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 6, 2020 at 10:00 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Mr.wizard - June 6, 2020 at 10:14 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 6, 2020 at 10:18 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Mr.wizard - June 6, 2020 at 10:26 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 6, 2020 at 10:29 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Mr.wizard - June 6, 2020 at 10:38 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 6, 2020 at 10:42 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Mr.wizard - June 6, 2020 at 10:44 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 6, 2020 at 10:45 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Mr.wizard - June 6, 2020 at 10:46 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 6, 2020 at 10:51 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Mr.wizard - June 6, 2020 at 11:00 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 6, 2020 at 11:04 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Mr.wizard - June 6, 2020 at 11:46 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 7, 2020 at 12:03 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Mr.wizard - June 7, 2020 at 12:19 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 7, 2020 at 3:49 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Deesse23 - June 7, 2020 at 4:18 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 7, 2020 at 5:09 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Deesse23 - June 7, 2020 at 6:27 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Mr.wizard - June 7, 2020 at 9:07 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Deesse23 - June 7, 2020 at 1:30 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by GUBU - June 7, 2020 at 6:19 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 7, 2020 at 6:20 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by GUBU - June 7, 2020 at 6:28 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Deesse23 - June 6, 2020 at 11:20 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 6, 2020 at 11:21 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Deesse23 - June 7, 2020 at 12:01 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by downbeatplumb - June 7, 2020 at 5:43 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 7, 2020 at 5:49 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Abaddon_ire - June 7, 2020 at 2:42 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Architect Of Fate - June 8, 2020 at 4:55 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Foxaèr - June 6, 2020 at 9:55 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 7, 2020 at 5:45 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 7, 2020 at 5:52 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 7, 2020 at 5:57 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 7, 2020 at 6:00 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 7, 2020 at 6:03 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 7, 2020 at 6:08 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 7, 2020 at 6:11 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 7, 2020 at 6:15 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 7, 2020 at 6:17 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Paleophyte - June 7, 2020 at 10:59 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 7, 2020 at 6:20 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 7, 2020 at 6:23 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 7, 2020 at 6:22 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 7, 2020 at 6:26 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 7, 2020 at 6:29 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Deesse23 - June 7, 2020 at 7:35 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 7, 2020 at 7:37 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Deesse23 - June 7, 2020 at 8:59 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 7, 2020 at 6:36 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 7, 2020 at 6:41 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 7, 2020 at 6:49 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 7, 2020 at 6:58 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 7, 2020 at 7:16 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 7, 2020 at 7:33 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by downbeatplumb - June 7, 2020 at 12:17 pm
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 7, 2020 at 7:42 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 7, 2020 at 7:58 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 7, 2020 at 8:07 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by brokenreflector - June 7, 2020 at 8:16 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Foxaèr - June 7, 2020 at 8:32 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Valkyrie - June 7, 2020 at 8:34 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by possibletarian - June 7, 2020 at 8:35 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Valkyrie - June 7, 2020 at 8:11 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by Foxaèr - June 7, 2020 at 8:11 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 7, 2020 at 8:15 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 7, 2020 at 8:31 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 7, 2020 at 8:45 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Architect Of Fate - June 7, 2020 at 8:49 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by possibletarian - June 7, 2020 at 8:55 am
RE: The Struggle to do Good - by The Grand Nudger - June 7, 2020 at 9:01 am



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