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Why am I me?
#66
RE: Why am I me?
(October 26, 2011 at 1:04 am)toro Wrote: Why do you draw this conclusion instead of that life is so fine-tuned to the universe? By this same argument...

The word 'lucent' was picked just perfectly for you! If it were not for your desire to use it as a member name on atheistforums.org, God would never have inspired man to develop language to create a word that would sound that way while simultaneously meaning bright and clear. That was some thoughtful work on its part.

Clearly I can't have a desire before I exist. The Universe began before me, and my existence is no more important than anyone else.

(October 26, 2011 at 1:04 am)toro Wrote: The universe cannot be infinitely precise. This contradicts the current and leading theories of physics.

Then let's say it is so precise as to have a perfect record of performance.

(October 26, 2011 at 1:04 am)toro Wrote: The dynamical interactions explain this. Hence, God is unnecessary unless you are defining God as the interactions. In which case, you need to separate your definition of "God" and "YHWH" in future posts.

"Dynamical interactions" don't explain it. Here is the theory: (for some reason - Universe begins - explodes - (bunch of magic happens) - order). A directed process makes a bit more sense than this.

And no scientific theory can exclude God, because it cannot rule out Agency.

(October 26, 2011 at 1:04 am)toro Wrote: You are assuming the universe came "out of nothing". This remains one of the key, unresolved issues of modern physics. Some theories have the universe always existing. Others have the universe starting due to collision between super dimensional membranes. Others suggest that the "universe" is actually a reflection of nothingness (ergo, nothing still exists). Others have the universe spatially expanding in reference to another expanding in the opposite spacetime dimensions. This last one then simply means the universe only has value with reference to the other, and therefore outside of both nothing continues to exist.

Stephan Hawking said that the existence of gravity means the Universe could be created out of nothing. I wondered how people could take someone who said something like that seriously.

I am assuming the Universe began, for which there is excellent evidence. I am assuming that something doesn't come from nothing, which is logical. I am assuming that without an eternal first cause you have an infinite regress of causes which is nonsense.

I would also ask why God is any less probable than any of those theories. Design in the Universe is so obvious that the "multiple universe theory" is proposed to eliminate the problem of the impossibility of the odds against such a Universe like ours from spontaneously occuring. With many Universes, eventually our Universe becomes mathematically possible, but then you haven't dealt with the multiple universe generator which is even more fine tuned than the original fine tuning problem.

I will suggest that the problem people have with God has nothing to do with probability and everything to do with an imagined right to complete freedom for self-determination which isn't even logically possible without God.

(October 26, 2011 at 1:04 am)toro Wrote: One theory is that 'you' exist separately from everyone else because physically, the universe is a collection of separate, isolated systems. Hence, only the interaction between systems (from the POV of one system) exist. The objects causing the interaction have no physical existence.

Physically speaking, this is a form of relativity. The sun doesn't have a definitive physically existence to anything not interacting with it. From the POV of an electron named Jim, only the photons hitting the electron at any given moment do, and the electron stops being the electron and becomes the electron-photon. Anything that is not interacting with it does not exist. From the POV of a human, since we are neurologically a signal in the brain, our neurological signal exists but nothing else does. Hence 'you' are conscious because from your POV, literally nothing not entering your brain physically exists. You are the universe in a sense. Your brain signal does not physically interact with mine, and they remain completely isolated, hence they exist in separate 'universes' so to speak.

This is only possible if we assume there is no objective background universe of which we are interacting. If we do, then that explains what "I" am and why "I" am not "you". This simultaneously means that nothing else can simultaneously physically interact with us (ergo, "know" our consciousness) and everything else at the same time. Read: God.

Why not? Where do you get the idea that humans are only "neurological signals in the brain"? That's one giant leap don't you think? What if in this example everyone is a part of God? Why couldn't God be the I AM behind all little i am's?

(October 26, 2011 at 1:04 am)toro Wrote: This is the end result of the RQM interpretation of quantum mechanics.
It's probably the most interesting denial of God I've heard yet, but it doesn't add up to anything.









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Messages In This Thread
Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - October 12, 2010 at 5:58 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Anomalocaris - October 12, 2010 at 6:15 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Ace Otana - October 12, 2010 at 6:22 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Anomalocaris - October 12, 2010 at 7:14 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - October 13, 2010 at 8:03 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - October 13, 2010 at 8:34 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Loki_999 - October 14, 2010 at 1:41 am
RE: Why am I me? - by marksesl - October 15, 2012 at 3:40 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Existentialist - October 12, 2010 at 7:32 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by ib.me.ub - October 13, 2010 at 3:04 am
RE: Why am I me? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - October 13, 2010 at 4:57 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Loki_999 - October 13, 2010 at 5:35 am
RE: Why am I me? - by The Omnissiunt One - October 13, 2010 at 7:26 am
RE: Why am I me? - by ib.me.ub - October 14, 2010 at 6:23 am
RE: Why am I me? - by ChromodynamicGirl - October 16, 2010 at 6:24 am
RE: Why am I me? - by solja247 - October 21, 2010 at 6:14 am
RE: Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - October 27, 2010 at 3:27 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by jason56 - October 27, 2010 at 7:38 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 27, 2010 at 7:41 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - October 28, 2010 at 3:05 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 29, 2010 at 3:29 am
RE: Why am I me? - by deanalouise - December 15, 2016 at 2:45 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Edwardo Piet - October 29, 2010 at 4:58 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 29, 2010 at 5:01 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Edwardo Piet - October 29, 2010 at 5:06 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 29, 2010 at 5:15 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Edwardo Piet - October 29, 2010 at 5:34 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 29, 2010 at 5:54 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Edwardo Piet - October 29, 2010 at 7:47 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 30, 2010 at 3:45 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Edwardo Piet - October 31, 2010 at 7:42 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Yahadreas - October 29, 2010 at 10:31 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Edwardo Piet - October 29, 2010 at 11:06 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Yahadreas - October 30, 2010 at 6:41 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 30, 2010 at 7:38 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Yahadreas - October 30, 2010 at 1:57 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by The Omnissiunt One - October 30, 2010 at 2:59 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 30, 2010 at 6:47 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Yahadreas - October 31, 2010 at 6:58 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - November 3, 2010 at 12:44 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Dooga33 - September 1, 2011 at 9:27 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - September 3, 2011 at 4:01 am
RE: Why am I me? - by KichigaiNeko - September 3, 2011 at 7:06 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Dooga33 - September 3, 2011 at 11:01 am
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - September 3, 2011 at 11:05 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Dooga33 - September 3, 2011 at 11:26 am
RE: Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - September 3, 2011 at 11:24 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - September 4, 2011 at 10:34 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Dooga33 - September 4, 2011 at 10:40 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Rohobian - September 10, 2011 at 12:06 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by The Magic Pudding - September 10, 2011 at 1:59 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - September 15, 2011 at 6:28 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - September 16, 2011 at 10:08 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by The Magic Pudding - September 17, 2011 at 11:06 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by IATIA - September 17, 2011 at 11:47 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - September 18, 2011 at 6:32 am
RE: Why am I me? - by IATIA - September 18, 2011 at 10:59 am
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - September 18, 2011 at 7:20 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by IATIA - September 18, 2011 at 11:42 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Epimethean - September 18, 2011 at 7:31 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - September 18, 2011 at 11:20 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Epimethean - September 18, 2011 at 11:44 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by KichigaiNeko - September 19, 2011 at 10:24 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - September 19, 2011 at 6:18 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Epimethean - September 19, 2011 at 10:08 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by toro - October 26, 2011 at 1:04 am
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - October 26, 2011 at 8:05 am
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - October 26, 2011 at 2:18 am
RE: Why am I me? - by frankiej - October 26, 2011 at 8:13 am
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - October 26, 2011 at 8:40 am
RE: Why am I me? - by KichigaiNeko - October 26, 2011 at 8:46 am
RE: Why am I me? - by frankiej - October 26, 2011 at 8:48 am
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - October 26, 2011 at 9:16 am
RE: Why am I me? - by KichigaiNeko - October 26, 2011 at 9:23 am
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - October 26, 2011 at 10:28 am
RE: Why am I me? - by KichigaiNeko - October 26, 2011 at 10:42 am
RE: Why am I me? - by frankiej - October 26, 2011 at 8:43 am
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - October 26, 2011 at 10:39 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 26, 2011 at 11:57 am
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - October 26, 2011 at 10:44 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 26, 2011 at 12:02 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - October 26, 2011 at 11:59 am
RE: Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - October 26, 2011 at 10:40 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by toro - October 26, 2011 at 10:54 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - October 27, 2011 at 8:57 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - October 27, 2011 at 5:46 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by toro - October 30, 2011 at 1:43 am
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - October 30, 2011 at 6:08 am
RE: Why am I me? - by toro - October 31, 2011 at 10:55 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Phaedra - October 31, 2011 at 11:33 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - November 1, 2011 at 1:33 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Welsh cake - November 1, 2011 at 12:32 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by toro - November 2, 2011 at 1:17 am
RE: Why am I me? - by IATIA - November 6, 2011 at 5:11 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Godschild - November 3, 2011 at 4:33 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - November 7, 2011 at 11:07 am
RE: Why am I me? - by frankiej - November 3, 2011 at 4:34 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by 5thHorseman - November 3, 2011 at 4:38 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by frankiej - November 3, 2011 at 4:39 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - November 3, 2011 at 4:56 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Godschild - November 4, 2011 at 1:15 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Norfolk And Chance - November 12, 2011 at 8:16 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by IATIA - November 13, 2011 at 7:58 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Norfolk And Chance - November 13, 2011 at 8:11 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by IATIA - November 13, 2011 at 8:21 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Norfolk And Chance - November 13, 2011 at 8:25 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by toro - November 13, 2011 at 10:00 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by IATIA - November 13, 2011 at 8:45 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Norfolk And Chance - November 13, 2011 at 10:29 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - November 14, 2011 at 9:18 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Epimethean - November 14, 2011 at 9:35 am
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - November 14, 2011 at 9:45 am
RE: Why am I me? - by ib.me.ub - November 14, 2011 at 9:59 am
RE: Why am I me? - by dogma - February 14, 2012 at 4:40 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - February 14, 2012 at 12:03 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by dogma - February 14, 2012 at 11:38 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by KichigaiNeko - February 14, 2012 at 4:56 am
RE: Why am I me? - by jason56 - February 14, 2012 at 8:35 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - February 15, 2012 at 12:09 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by dogma - February 15, 2012 at 2:52 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Perhaps - February 15, 2012 at 12:38 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - February 15, 2012 at 3:33 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by dogma - February 15, 2012 at 5:37 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - February 15, 2012 at 4:38 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by philosiver - July 12, 2012 at 6:50 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - July 12, 2012 at 9:41 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Reforged - July 12, 2012 at 10:22 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by jonb - July 13, 2012 at 5:39 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Colanth - July 16, 2012 at 10:59 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by liam - July 17, 2012 at 5:49 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Comprehender - October 15, 2012 at 8:11 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - October 15, 2012 at 9:34 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Comprehender - October 16, 2012 at 10:18 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Whateverist - October 16, 2012 at 11:09 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - October 16, 2012 at 10:40 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Comprehender - October 20, 2012 at 11:18 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - October 21, 2012 at 11:34 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - October 16, 2012 at 1:08 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Whateverist - October 16, 2012 at 2:07 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Darkstar - October 21, 2012 at 1:33 am
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - October 21, 2012 at 11:35 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - October 21, 2012 at 12:31 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Tempus - October 23, 2012 at 1:33 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Edwardo Piet - October 24, 2012 at 9:50 am
RE: Why am I me? - by YASHA - October 26, 2012 at 11:39 am
RE: Why am I me? - by blackjack1221 - March 6, 2013 at 8:00 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - March 6, 2013 at 8:24 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Darkstar - March 6, 2013 at 9:01 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Jackalope - March 6, 2013 at 10:13 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Darkstar - March 6, 2013 at 10:55 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Something completely different - March 6, 2013 at 9:13 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by FragileTag - March 23, 2013 at 1:25 am
RE: Why am I me? - by KichigaiNeko - March 23, 2013 at 10:30 am
RE: Why am I me? - by FirstmadeLast - April 24, 2015 at 8:40 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Mudhammam - April 25, 2015 at 5:09 am
RE: Why am I me? - by account_inactive - December 15, 2016 at 2:49 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by FatAndFaithless - December 15, 2016 at 2:50 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by vorlon13 - December 15, 2016 at 3:06 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by abaris - December 15, 2016 at 3:24 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by vorlon13 - December 15, 2016 at 3:26 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Cato - December 15, 2016 at 10:50 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by LadyForCamus - December 15, 2016 at 11:20 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Chas - December 17, 2016 at 12:49 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by LadyForCamus - December 16, 2016 at 8:08 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Whateverist - December 16, 2016 at 8:45 am
RE: Why am I me? - by AceBoogie - December 17, 2016 at 6:26 am
RE: Why am I me? - by bennyboy - December 17, 2016 at 6:45 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Edwardo Piet - December 17, 2016 at 6:52 am



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