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Why am I me?
#89
RE: Why am I me?
(October 31, 2011 at 10:55 pm)toro Wrote: Separate systems are perfectly coherent: there are multiple systems whose values appear to change in a non-deterministic fashion upon observation (interaction). This is the only physical explanation that explains entanglement, which is observed in numerous experiments examining the decays of state. How the interaction takes place is the point of explanation. Hence separate systems are, in as much as one can say about anything, fact.

It's a logically incoherent definition since all the systems are functionally interdependent, thus former a larger system, and all having a common origin. A Universe full of universes is still a Universe.

(October 31, 2011 at 10:55 pm)toro Wrote: I am pointing out that one interpretation of QM suggests that all systems are equal, and there is no background. This means that from the POV of one system, anything it is not entangled/interacting with at any given moment does not exist. Therefore, the entirety of existence from the POV of that system is the value it currently has. This interpretation suggests this is what existence is: a specific value of a specific isolated system. As the systems are isolated from one another, they all exist in their own frame of reference (POV) and with no background frame within which they exist or interact, they remain isolated and exist separate from one another. There are other interpretations of QM, none of them happen to address this problem.

What exactly is this interpretation of QM specifically?

(October 31, 2011 at 10:55 pm)toro Wrote: Humans are a large collection of interacting molecular quantum systems that continually become entangled and become decoupled. The entanglement occurs on a molecular level and the interaction between these systems does not occur simultaneously in time. Hence, we as physical bodies aren't single quantum systems. Parts entangle, then decouple, then entangle with a different parameters, etc. The photon from the sun interacts with our eye. This creates a chemical change which induces charge transfer. This charge transfer continues, eventually reaching separate parts of the brain in a chain of interactions. These interactions occur in time, meaning that once the signal has left the eye, a new photon hits the eyes, decoupling it from the neighboring molecule. The process starts over and is phenomenologically identical to other environmental interacts such as skin and surfaces, etc.


Yes and all objects are 99 percent empty space and the appearance of solidity stems from the interaction of energy fields. You can reduce everything down to some process which is alien to what it is explaining. Yet, what is interesting is the interaction of this information with our consciousness; our persistant self-awareness which interprets everything through the lens of awareness, which is transcendent of mechanisms.

(October 31, 2011 at 10:55 pm)toro Wrote: Abortion.

It's a hole in your theory is what it is. You have to get from two beings being one in one system to two separate systems which is logically incoherent given your premises.

(October 31, 2011 at 10:55 pm)toro Wrote: Because if we don't, we are assuming one of us is right and everyone else is wrong.

One of us is right and one of us is wrong. It doesn't speak for everyone else.

(October 31, 2011 at 10:55 pm)toro Wrote: Explain what you mean by "nature of".

If you want to reduce each person to a system which is a self contained "universe", just receiving signals from entanglements from other such universes, what is the character or quality of that existence. it sounds like nothing more than a computer processing information and any awareness or individuality is illusionary, like some kind of matrix.

(October 31, 2011 at 10:55 pm)toro Wrote: You are now defining God as something illogical. You cannot have objective existence and subjective existence simultaneously. This is the problem of the discussion.

Trying to understand it without God is the problem. That's what is leading to this bizarre speculation about QM realities.

God is objective in that He knows everything and every possible perspective simultaneously. God is subjective in that He is arbitrary.
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Messages In This Thread
Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - October 12, 2010 at 5:58 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Anomalocaris - October 12, 2010 at 6:15 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Ace Otana - October 12, 2010 at 6:22 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Anomalocaris - October 12, 2010 at 7:14 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - October 13, 2010 at 8:03 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - October 13, 2010 at 8:34 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Loki_999 - October 14, 2010 at 1:41 am
RE: Why am I me? - by marksesl - October 15, 2012 at 3:40 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Existentialist - October 12, 2010 at 7:32 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by ib.me.ub - October 13, 2010 at 3:04 am
RE: Why am I me? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - October 13, 2010 at 4:57 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Loki_999 - October 13, 2010 at 5:35 am
RE: Why am I me? - by The Omnissiunt One - October 13, 2010 at 7:26 am
RE: Why am I me? - by ib.me.ub - October 14, 2010 at 6:23 am
RE: Why am I me? - by ChromodynamicGirl - October 16, 2010 at 6:24 am
RE: Why am I me? - by solja247 - October 21, 2010 at 6:14 am
RE: Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - October 27, 2010 at 3:27 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by jason56 - October 27, 2010 at 7:38 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 27, 2010 at 7:41 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - October 28, 2010 at 3:05 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 29, 2010 at 3:29 am
RE: Why am I me? - by deanalouise - December 15, 2016 at 2:45 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Edwardo Piet - October 29, 2010 at 4:58 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 29, 2010 at 5:01 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Edwardo Piet - October 29, 2010 at 5:06 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 29, 2010 at 5:15 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Edwardo Piet - October 29, 2010 at 5:34 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 29, 2010 at 5:54 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Edwardo Piet - October 29, 2010 at 7:47 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 30, 2010 at 3:45 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Edwardo Piet - October 31, 2010 at 7:42 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Yahadreas - October 29, 2010 at 10:31 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Edwardo Piet - October 29, 2010 at 11:06 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Yahadreas - October 30, 2010 at 6:41 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 30, 2010 at 7:38 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Yahadreas - October 30, 2010 at 1:57 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by The Omnissiunt One - October 30, 2010 at 2:59 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 30, 2010 at 6:47 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Yahadreas - October 31, 2010 at 6:58 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - November 3, 2010 at 12:44 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Dooga33 - September 1, 2011 at 9:27 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - September 3, 2011 at 4:01 am
RE: Why am I me? - by KichigaiNeko - September 3, 2011 at 7:06 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Dooga33 - September 3, 2011 at 11:01 am
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - September 3, 2011 at 11:05 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Dooga33 - September 3, 2011 at 11:26 am
RE: Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - September 3, 2011 at 11:24 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - September 4, 2011 at 10:34 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Dooga33 - September 4, 2011 at 10:40 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Rohobian - September 10, 2011 at 12:06 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by The Magic Pudding - September 10, 2011 at 1:59 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - September 15, 2011 at 6:28 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - September 16, 2011 at 10:08 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by The Magic Pudding - September 17, 2011 at 11:06 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by IATIA - September 17, 2011 at 11:47 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - September 18, 2011 at 6:32 am
RE: Why am I me? - by IATIA - September 18, 2011 at 10:59 am
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - September 18, 2011 at 7:20 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by IATIA - September 18, 2011 at 11:42 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Epimethean - September 18, 2011 at 7:31 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - September 18, 2011 at 11:20 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Epimethean - September 18, 2011 at 11:44 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by KichigaiNeko - September 19, 2011 at 10:24 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - September 19, 2011 at 6:18 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Epimethean - September 19, 2011 at 10:08 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by toro - October 26, 2011 at 1:04 am
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - October 26, 2011 at 8:05 am
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - October 26, 2011 at 2:18 am
RE: Why am I me? - by frankiej - October 26, 2011 at 8:13 am
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - October 26, 2011 at 8:40 am
RE: Why am I me? - by KichigaiNeko - October 26, 2011 at 8:46 am
RE: Why am I me? - by frankiej - October 26, 2011 at 8:48 am
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - October 26, 2011 at 9:16 am
RE: Why am I me? - by KichigaiNeko - October 26, 2011 at 9:23 am
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - October 26, 2011 at 10:28 am
RE: Why am I me? - by KichigaiNeko - October 26, 2011 at 10:42 am
RE: Why am I me? - by frankiej - October 26, 2011 at 8:43 am
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - October 26, 2011 at 10:39 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 26, 2011 at 11:57 am
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - October 26, 2011 at 10:44 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 26, 2011 at 12:02 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - October 26, 2011 at 11:59 am
RE: Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - October 26, 2011 at 10:40 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by toro - October 26, 2011 at 10:54 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - October 27, 2011 at 8:57 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - October 27, 2011 at 5:46 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by toro - October 30, 2011 at 1:43 am
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - October 30, 2011 at 6:08 am
RE: Why am I me? - by toro - October 31, 2011 at 10:55 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Phaedra - October 31, 2011 at 11:33 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - November 1, 2011 at 1:33 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Welsh cake - November 1, 2011 at 12:32 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by toro - November 2, 2011 at 1:17 am
RE: Why am I me? - by IATIA - November 6, 2011 at 5:11 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Godschild - November 3, 2011 at 4:33 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - November 7, 2011 at 11:07 am
RE: Why am I me? - by frankiej - November 3, 2011 at 4:34 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by 5thHorseman - November 3, 2011 at 4:38 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by frankiej - November 3, 2011 at 4:39 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - November 3, 2011 at 4:56 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Godschild - November 4, 2011 at 1:15 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Norfolk And Chance - November 12, 2011 at 8:16 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by IATIA - November 13, 2011 at 7:58 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Norfolk And Chance - November 13, 2011 at 8:11 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by IATIA - November 13, 2011 at 8:21 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Norfolk And Chance - November 13, 2011 at 8:25 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by toro - November 13, 2011 at 10:00 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by IATIA - November 13, 2011 at 8:45 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Norfolk And Chance - November 13, 2011 at 10:29 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - November 14, 2011 at 9:18 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Epimethean - November 14, 2011 at 9:35 am
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - November 14, 2011 at 9:45 am
RE: Why am I me? - by ib.me.ub - November 14, 2011 at 9:59 am
RE: Why am I me? - by dogma - February 14, 2012 at 4:40 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - February 14, 2012 at 12:03 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by dogma - February 14, 2012 at 11:38 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by KichigaiNeko - February 14, 2012 at 4:56 am
RE: Why am I me? - by jason56 - February 14, 2012 at 8:35 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - February 15, 2012 at 12:09 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by dogma - February 15, 2012 at 2:52 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Perhaps - February 15, 2012 at 12:38 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - February 15, 2012 at 3:33 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by dogma - February 15, 2012 at 5:37 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - February 15, 2012 at 4:38 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by philosiver - July 12, 2012 at 6:50 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - July 12, 2012 at 9:41 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Reforged - July 12, 2012 at 10:22 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by jonb - July 13, 2012 at 5:39 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Colanth - July 16, 2012 at 10:59 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by liam - July 17, 2012 at 5:49 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Comprehender - October 15, 2012 at 8:11 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - October 15, 2012 at 9:34 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Comprehender - October 16, 2012 at 10:18 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Whateverist - October 16, 2012 at 11:09 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - October 16, 2012 at 10:40 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Comprehender - October 20, 2012 at 11:18 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - October 21, 2012 at 11:34 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - October 16, 2012 at 1:08 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Whateverist - October 16, 2012 at 2:07 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Darkstar - October 21, 2012 at 1:33 am
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - October 21, 2012 at 11:35 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - October 21, 2012 at 12:31 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Tempus - October 23, 2012 at 1:33 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Edwardo Piet - October 24, 2012 at 9:50 am
RE: Why am I me? - by YASHA - October 26, 2012 at 11:39 am
RE: Why am I me? - by blackjack1221 - March 6, 2013 at 8:00 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - March 6, 2013 at 8:24 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Darkstar - March 6, 2013 at 9:01 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Jackalope - March 6, 2013 at 10:13 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Darkstar - March 6, 2013 at 10:55 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Something completely different - March 6, 2013 at 9:13 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by FragileTag - March 23, 2013 at 1:25 am
RE: Why am I me? - by KichigaiNeko - March 23, 2013 at 10:30 am
RE: Why am I me? - by FirstmadeLast - April 24, 2015 at 8:40 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Mudhammam - April 25, 2015 at 5:09 am
RE: Why am I me? - by account_inactive - December 15, 2016 at 2:49 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by FatAndFaithless - December 15, 2016 at 2:50 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by vorlon13 - December 15, 2016 at 3:06 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by abaris - December 15, 2016 at 3:24 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by vorlon13 - December 15, 2016 at 3:26 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Cato - December 15, 2016 at 10:50 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by LadyForCamus - December 15, 2016 at 11:20 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Chas - December 17, 2016 at 12:49 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by LadyForCamus - December 16, 2016 at 8:08 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Whateverist - December 16, 2016 at 8:45 am
RE: Why am I me? - by AceBoogie - December 17, 2016 at 6:26 am
RE: Why am I me? - by bennyboy - December 17, 2016 at 6:45 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Edwardo Piet - December 17, 2016 at 6:52 am



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