The Watchmaker: my fav argument

[Apollo]

It is an obscure and incomprehensible concept when you assign it as a product of an almighty designer that you have not even proven even exists.

I assigned it as a product of intelligence not God. I don't particularly think you need gods to show the universe can be designed. We design many worlds ourselves—have you played RDR2 recently?

But I agree the conversation does eventually have to focus on a particular designer.

Please. For the love of the god. Don't bring intelligence into it. We have had enough with "designer" already. Now you're introducing another loaded term. Is intelligence something that exists without the agent who possess it (living organism)? No.