Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: July 25, 2025, 7:48 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
[Serious] Good People
#21
RE: Good People
(May 11, 2021 at 12:48 am)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: This is an individualistic society and that is the frame of reference I'm taking. I wouldn't know how to frame the question within a collectivist society.

It's a cultural shift, I think. Oddly, it seems to unite both the infamous '60s hippies and the post-Reagan "conservatives." 

Probably you remember the distinction between Negative Liberty and Positive Liberty cited by Kant and elaborated by Isaiah Berlin. Negative Liberty is freedom FROM -- freedom from external constraints, like government rules. Positive Liberty is freedom TO -- freedom to pursue our own goals as we see fit. Berlin wrote about how these things are often not compatible.

It looks to me as if post-Reagan "conservatives" have defined liberty entirely as Negative Liberty. Government, or other restriction, is always the problem. But before this, even when Americans thought of themselves as self-made cowboys, duty was a constant. Employers had a duty to their workers, neighbors to each other, etc. (Obviously this had its fractures -- whites felt little duty to blacks, for example.) 

Now I think duty is something that we praise military people for doing, but the idea that rich people have a duty to pay higher taxes or something seems abhorrent. Even "conservatives" don't feel a duty to stay married for the sake of the kids anymore. 

Anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers are probably extreme cases of this focus on Negative Liberty, with little or no feeling of duty. Maybe they feel some duty to an abstraction -- they feel they have to sound off on their idea of the constitution or the "American way" or something -- but not to the people next to them in line.



Messages In This Thread
Good People - by John 6IX Breezy - May 10, 2021 at 9:18 pm
RE: Good People - by Silver - May 10, 2021 at 9:29 pm
RE: Good People - by vulcanlogician - May 10, 2021 at 9:38 pm
RE: Good People - by John 6IX Breezy - May 10, 2021 at 10:18 pm
RE: Good People - by brewer - May 10, 2021 at 11:18 pm
RE: Good People - by Rev. Rye - May 10, 2021 at 9:48 pm
RE: Good People - by John 6IX Breezy - May 10, 2021 at 11:14 pm
RE: Good People - by brewer - May 10, 2021 at 9:50 pm
RE: Good People - by Rev. Rye - May 10, 2021 at 10:28 pm
RE: Good People - by arewethereyet - May 10, 2021 at 10:57 pm
RE: Good People - by Rev. Rye - May 10, 2021 at 11:14 pm
RE: Good People - by vulcanlogician - May 10, 2021 at 11:18 pm
RE: Good People - by John 6IX Breezy - May 10, 2021 at 11:43 pm
RE: Good People - by Peebo-Thuhlu - May 10, 2021 at 11:48 pm
RE: Good People - by John 6IX Breezy - May 11, 2021 at 12:09 am
RE: Good People - by Peebo-Thuhlu - May 11, 2021 at 12:11 am
RE: Good People - by John 6IX Breezy - May 11, 2021 at 12:27 am
RE: Good People - by Peebo-Thuhlu - May 11, 2021 at 12:41 am
RE: Good People - by John 6IX Breezy - May 11, 2021 at 1:13 am
RE: Good People - by Peebo-Thuhlu - May 11, 2021 at 1:22 am
RE: Good People - by John 6IX Breezy - May 11, 2021 at 1:49 am
RE: Good People - by Peebo-Thuhlu - May 11, 2021 at 2:05 am
RE: Good People - by Belacqua - May 10, 2021 at 11:49 pm
RE: Good People - by John 6IX Breezy - May 11, 2021 at 12:48 am
RE: Good People - by Belacqua - May 11, 2021 at 1:13 am
RE: Good People - by John 6IX Breezy - May 11, 2021 at 2:11 am
RE: Good People - by Peebo-Thuhlu - May 11, 2021 at 2:14 am
RE: Good People - by John 6IX Breezy - May 11, 2021 at 2:26 am
RE: Good People - by Peebo-Thuhlu - May 11, 2021 at 2:32 am
RE: Good People - by John 6IX Breezy - May 11, 2021 at 2:39 am
RE: Good People - by John 6IX Breezy - May 11, 2021 at 2:20 am
RE: Good People - by Peebo-Thuhlu - May 11, 2021 at 2:22 am
RE: Good People - by John 6IX Breezy - May 11, 2021 at 2:33 am
RE: Good People - by Peebo-Thuhlu - May 11, 2021 at 2:37 am
RE: Good People - by Peebo-Thuhlu - May 11, 2021 at 2:43 am
RE: Good People - by John 6IX Breezy - May 11, 2021 at 2:47 am
RE: Good People - by Peebo-Thuhlu - May 11, 2021 at 3:35 am
RE: Good People - by Belacqua - May 11, 2021 at 5:13 am
RE: Good People - by Peebo-Thuhlu - May 11, 2021 at 8:56 am
RE: Good People - by John 6IX Breezy - May 11, 2021 at 11:01 am
RE: Good People - by Belacqua - May 11, 2021 at 12:52 pm
RE: Good People - by Silver - May 11, 2021 at 3:47 am
RE: Good People - by The Grand Nudger - May 11, 2021 at 6:32 am
RE: Good People - by John 6IX Breezy - May 11, 2021 at 9:17 am
RE: Good People - by The Grand Nudger - May 11, 2021 at 9:22 am
RE: Good People - by John 6IX Breezy - May 11, 2021 at 9:30 am
RE: Good People - by The Grand Nudger - May 11, 2021 at 9:33 am
RE: Good People - by John 6IX Breezy - May 11, 2021 at 9:43 am
RE: Good People - by arewethereyet - May 11, 2021 at 9:47 am
RE: Good People - by brewer - May 11, 2021 at 9:51 am
RE: Good People - by The Grand Nudger - May 11, 2021 at 9:52 am
RE: Good People - by Deesse23 - May 11, 2021 at 11:24 am
RE: Good People - by John 6IX Breezy - May 11, 2021 at 12:01 pm
RE: Good People - by arewethereyet - May 11, 2021 at 12:26 pm
RE: Good People - by Deesse23 - May 11, 2021 at 12:40 pm
RE: Good People - by Peebo-Thuhlu - May 11, 2021 at 12:28 pm
RE: Good People - by Nay_Sayer - May 11, 2021 at 1:08 pm
RE: Good People - by Belacqua - May 11, 2021 at 1:56 pm
RE: Good People - by arewethereyet - May 11, 2021 at 2:04 pm
RE: Good People - by Ranjr - May 11, 2021 at 12:17 pm
RE: Good People - by The Grand Nudger - May 11, 2021 at 1:03 pm
RE: Good People - by downbeatplumb - May 11, 2021 at 1:51 pm



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)