RE: Who was Jesus?
August 18, 2021 at 3:16 pm
(This post was last modified: August 18, 2021 at 3:19 pm by Bucky Ball.)
(August 18, 2021 at 11:19 am)Ahriman Wrote: And (along the same vein as the miracle topic we discussed earlier) can belief in Jesus make sense without a historical Jesus?
Yes, Jesus absolutely existed historically. And yes, belief in Jesus can make sense without a historical Jesus.
You forgot to post your evidence that Jesus existed.
There are any number of PhD's who say he didn't.
So lets' see your evidence, and your credentials.
(You can skip Josephus and Tacitus ... they've been debunked).
The thing about the "son" of God, is .... it's a misunderstanding (or willful corruption) of the Hebrew concept.
In Hebrew culture, it did not mean what Christians mean, either to be "divine", or to be a "son of god".
In Hebrew culture, ALL the dead (shades) went to Sheol. Good ones and bad ones. Sheol was not where Yahweh lived.
The Hebrews, pre exile, were a tribal people. Immortality for them was the continuation of the family line. NOT "going to heaven".
Sheol was not heaven.
Psalm 39 :
"Turn your gaze away from me, that I may smile again,
before I depart, and am no more"
Psalm 115 :
The dead do not praise the Lord,
nor do any that go down into silence".
Psalm 6 : "For in death there is no remembrance of you, in Sheol, who can give you praise ?"
https://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13912-son-of-god
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sons_of_God
https://www.eisenbrauns.org/books/titles/978-1-57506-992-0.html
https://www.oneforisrael.org/bible-based-teaching-from-israel/mean-god-son-isnt-pagan-concept/
The fact is, the Hellenized and non Jewish Christians corrupted the Hebrew concept.
Jesus said that not a jot or tittle would be changed until "all things are accomplished".
A Jew from Jesus' era who claimed divine sonship and some sort of equivalence with Yahweh, would be stoned to death, legally.
The Heavenly Host consisted of many "divine beings", the highest was (eventually) Yahweh.
There is a passage in Deuteronomy which says a higher god than Yahweh (El Elyon), "parceled out" the nations, and Yahweh got Israel.
When the Witch of Endor conjured the shade of Samuel in Kings, for Saul, (which they knew was forbidden), Saul asked the Witch, "What do you see" ?
She said "I see a *divine* being, rising from the earth". It's kind of a fad these days in academia to do your dissertation on what "divine beings" were in Hebrew culture. As far as a "son of God goes, Yahweh had many sons, all it meant was they were a "righteous man", it DID NOT mean the person, (generals, politicians, judges, other heroes) was actually a "son" in the sense that Christians cooked it into, as having an actual filial relationship with Yahweh.
Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. - Joseph Campbell
Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist
Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist