RE: The Ownership of Science
November 4, 2021 at 1:23 pm
(This post was last modified: November 4, 2021 at 2:09 pm by Mister Agenda.)
(November 3, 2021 at 10:57 am)GaryAnderson Wrote: Yes. The mis-use of science. This is where we are going to get into interpretations again.
Here’s an example:
The universe exists and the Big Bang happened.
An atheist says : I don’t know why it exists. It just is.
An agnostic atheist, let’s take the scientist Michio Kaku for example, will philosophize and says : There’s a multiverse that exists which creates new universes and Big Bangs randomly.
A theist will say: God created this universe because it’s fine-tuned for life.
Who is mis-using science here?
The first example is someone being honest and only speaking to what can be known. The other examples are of people speculating.
(November 3, 2021 at 3:26 pm)GaryAnderson Wrote:(November 3, 2021 at 3:21 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Yes, some of us have heard of brute facts but I do not think you are there yet. Does the universe exist in the the particular way that it does by necessity or could it have been otherwise? To what exactly, i.e. what kind of objects, do the symbols of the math equation "2 + 2 =4" refer?Yes, the universe being a random accident is also a know stance here among skeptics and atheists. The statistical probability of this accident is explained by the existence of the infinite multiverse where universes collide and create baby universes or new Big Bangs. Infinite being the key concept there, as well as being a philosophy.
That’s also a valid position which I’m not dismissing. I just have different beliefs on fine-tuning that’s all. And I don’t mind others using string theory to say that a multiverse exists.
The statistical probabiity of fine-tuning depends on assuming that the constants referred to could be other than they are, that if they could be other than they are that they could differ enough to make life impossible, that if they could differ enough to make life impossible, they are independent of each other (that is, raising one by X doesn't mean that another has to be X lower, for instance) AND there are no other possible combinations where life different from what we're familiar with would be possible. That's a lot of ifs without even bringing other universes into it and we don't know the answer to any of them. It's not evidence, it's a thought experiment.
Besides, a universe in which life can exist naturally is the only kind of universe that doesn't require a supernatural explanation for why life exists. An omnipotent being could have us live thrivingly in a vacuum or on the surface of the sun, or without a strong force. What would such a being care for for what's physically possible? Imagine the puzzlement of scientists on the surface of the sun: According to my measurements, we should all be clouds of ionized vapor in this environment!
Edit: Acknowledgements to those who ninja'd me on my points.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.