New religion

[Carnavon]

Danger #1. Islamo-Christianity proposes not only that there is a god but that this god is opposed by a devil. The universe is a battle ground between these two opposing sides. [/b]

There are only two sides in this "spiritual struggle". There is no "Bob, the Neutral Christ" in either religion. Additionally, the side that serves the good god is well defined in the mind of the fundamentalist. It's always the side of your own religion, of course. After all, Islamo-Christianity is all about "serving God", however their individual sect and denomination may define God.

I would assume that if something is true , alternatives would not be true.
Is evolution true? It has been stated on this forum that it is a fact and you did not disagree.

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If they encounter a religion, belief, lifestyle, game or whatever is outside their idea of serving God, it rather narrows it down who these outsiders are serving, doesn't it? It's called process of elimination.

Giving the logic a rundown:
1. Presupposition: Total Powers of the Universe = God and Satan
2. Presupposition: "My religion = serving God"
3. Observation: Group outside my religion
4. Definition: "Not my religion = Not serving God"
5. Process of elimination: "Not serving God = Serving Satan"
6. Conclusion: "Outside group = manipulated by Satan or serving him"

Many Islamo-Christians might not want to take the "reasoning" that far but I hope this breakdown explains why the more extreme fundamentalists cry "Satanism" or "evil" when exposed to a religion, lifestyle, etc. that doesn't fit their narrow views of what is righteous.

I accept your assessment as a fair reflection of general views. However, I will make it subject to a condition – we are not to judge others as a matter of condemning them. People of other religions/a-religious are not my “enemies” but only people to whom I would like to bring the message of salvation to – not as a “my religion is better than yours and you are damned” but as an honest effort to just share my faith.
The views of right and wrong is not a matter of personal opinion. We sometimes do interpret things differently. It does however not effect truths that have been revealed to us.

Forgive my ignorance, but it still escapes me how this can be a threat. We decide on a number of things every day, to the exclusion of alternatives including issues of moral. If your choice is different to mine, and even if I regard your choice as “evil”, it does not allow me the “freedom” to act in such a manner that could be described as “dangerous”. Could you suggest doctrine from the Bible that will allow such behaviour?

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Such a worldview doesn't lend itself to tolerance of other religions, apostasy or other outsiders. Further, the conviction of being in the service of God can whitewash any bad behavior. After all, what promotes your religion is promoting the service of God and therefore how could that ever be a bad thing?

As I have indicated above, tolerance should be one of the hallmarks of a Christian. Being intolerant would suggest that I do not tolerate a different opinion. Being tolerant does not suggest that I am unable to take a stand or have a position in a matter.

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Danger #2: Islamo-Christianity proposes that there are two afterlife possibilities: eternal Heaven and eternal Hell. Again, there is no middle-ground.

Why is it a danger if this is put forward as the end result of our lives on earth? I would hold an opposite view that not sharing this information will make me irresponsible and not caring about others as “I am OK Jack” and hence more “dangerous” – not to me, but to others. Why is a middle ground important? How many alternatives would you like to have and why? What is your middle ground in the present discussion?

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Exact prescriptions for salvation vary according to denomination but being part of the right religion (and sometimes the right denomination) are typically at least part of the deal if not fully. This "faith-based" scheme of salvation ratchets the stakes to alarming levels.

Exact “prescriptions” for salvation is provided in the Bible. The “prescription” is that salvation is based on mercy, and nothing that you and I can do to earn it. Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

There are those that base their faith on their “good works”. Such views ignore to a large extent the cross, and tend to confuse man's responsibility with playing a part in your salvation
As with the previous “danger”, I do not see what the “danger” could be.

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In fact, if Hell really is a real place where you really do go to be eternally tormented if you have not received Jesus, the stakes could not be higher, not just for you but for all your loved ones.

Indeed, the stakes are high, my friend and hence the need to bring the good news that Jesus has paid the price for our sins, and we may have peace with God through the unmerited favour of God, and nothing that one can boast of or “look down” on anybody. It is by grace only. If it depended on me, I would make a complete hash of it.

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Given this belief, how could a little torture be a bad thing. If torturing someone in this life leads them to salvation for eternity, isn't that a good thing? If burning an unrepentant heretic at the stake can silence criticism of holy doctrine and therefore save more souls for all eternity, isn't that a good thing?

I do not know who suggests that. I know that in Islam people are tortured etc to renounce their faith in Christ, but there is no indication that it would be an action sanctioned in the Bible. Again, this would be accepting that you could make somebody a Christian by merely accepting a certain doctrine– whether it be voluntary or under compulsion.

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If your child, if you have one, were about to be thrown into a lake of fire, wouldn't you use lethal force, if needed, to stop your child's assailant? How about an atheist who speaks out against your religion and therefore endangers all who heed him to Hell, including potentially your children and other loved ones?

I do not know where you would find justification for such actions in the Bible. It would be directly in opposition to what He commands. Your question however suggests that you may regard it as a viable option? This implies that people who espouses a viewpoint that you regard as “dangerous” could be dealt with rather severely – even punishment by death?

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Again, most Muslims and Christians won't take it that far but it's easy to see why a few would. Bloody crusades, jihads, inquisitions, pogroms, etc are not an aberration from Islamo-Christian doctrine but rather the very flowering of these faiths.

There has been crusades in the “Name of Christ” and people burned at the stake (i.e Tyndale) for their convictions. Thus the opinion of man is of very little importance. You would know that the Jews crucified Jesus because of his “blaspheme”, claiming to be equal to God. The question is not “what do so-called Christians do”, but what does the Bible say about it?

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How can Islamo-Christianity value liberty? How can you give freedom to those who serve the devil? How can you tolerate their liberty to do so? What is the value of their life verses saving more souls for all eternity, souls which the unrepentant heathen might take with him to Hell.

The value of a human life is not determined by my assessment of its value. Withholding freedom of religion is nowhere advocated in the Bible.

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However the Christian faith as reflected in the Bible states just the opposite.

Romans 13:1-2, just to cite one contra-example. There are plenty more but that's a good start.

The verse refers to resisting the authorities and hence judgement by them. Your assumption about the proper interpretation is further proven to be wrong by amongst others the following:
Rom 12:19....Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. ,
Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. ,
Pro 20:22 Say not thou, I will recompense evil; but wait on the LORD, and he shall save thee,
1Pe 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

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To the contrary, empirical investigation is strongly encouraged in the Christian faith.
Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

That verse doesn't suggest free thought, critical examination or rational inquiry at all. Grasping at straws much?

Please explain why this would not encourage/allow objective evaluation of fact?
The word mind is
G1271
διάνοια
dianoia -deep thought, properly the faculty (mind or its disposition), by implication its exercise: - imagination, mind, understanding

Probably from the base of G1097; the intellect, that is, mind (divine or human; in thought, feeling, or will); by implication meaning: - mind, understanding.

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If Hell isn't terrifying I don't know what is.

If questioning dogma or apostasy are a ticket to Hell, how is that not slavery?

If one is encouraged to pray instead of doing it yourself, this is not empowering.

Hell. If I told you that to touch an open and live electric wire will kill you, and advise you that you may safely touch it by disconnecting it from the electricity supply point, how is that terrifying? If the Bible is true, and hell exists, you would want God to warn you?

Dogma /apostasy: If you considered slavery as somebody being able to and in fact say ” Do this or else”, then we are all slaves. We are slaves of the government, our employers, people we enter into contract with etc.
Christians happily submit to the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ, as He has given us eternal life and his commands are good: (Psa 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in His law doth he meditate day and night, Psa 40:8 (40:9) I delight to do Thy will, O my God; yea, Thy law is in my inmost parts.'; Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man; Job 23:12 Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food.).

If you think your boss is really great and his rules fair, would you regard being under his authority and rules as something to be despised?

Prayer: Your children ( I assume you have) are dependent on you for all. Would you not give them the best, and they would lovingly ask you to help them? This is similar.


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