Carnavon, you've posted a lot here and I'm at work right now so it's going to take me some time to respond fully.
For now, let me just post briefly on the topic of what each of us mean by the term "morality". We need to first nail down what we're talking about before we can have a rational discussion about it.
When I say, "morality", I refer to our treatment of other sentient beings. Where our behavior impacts other sentients, questions of morality apply. Deception of other beings, disregard for their rights, irresponsibility for your own actions or wantonly causing harm to others is what I mean by "immoral".
I outline this for you because your definition of morality seems muddled and confused. You rightly are appalled by child pornography and sexual predators. These industries and people victimize others and are therefore immoral. Having an affair is immoral because it involves deception of the spouse. Are these problems really getting worse or are we just talking about the problems and paying attention now?
Let me cite one example of sexual problems our society is dealing with better now than before: In previous generations, sexual harassment at work was part of life. A woman had little or no recourse if her boss came on to her. Now our society has turned against the practice and punishes men who stalk and harass. The system isn't perfect but it's getting better.
You are rightly worried about teen pregnancy. Sex needs to be done with responsibility. Conservative attempts to cut sex education and instead fund "abstinence only" have been a disaster, causing increases in teen pregnancy and STDs. Conservative attempts to "legislate morality" have wound up causing much harm.
Mixed in with all your concerns is a lot of railing against pornography and other victimless crimes. If no one is harmed, deceived, forced or intimidated, if their rights are not violated, if activities are engaged with responsibility and integrity, it is not immoral.
I'll get back to the rest later.
For now, let me just post briefly on the topic of what each of us mean by the term "morality". We need to first nail down what we're talking about before we can have a rational discussion about it.
When I say, "morality", I refer to our treatment of other sentient beings. Where our behavior impacts other sentients, questions of morality apply. Deception of other beings, disregard for their rights, irresponsibility for your own actions or wantonly causing harm to others is what I mean by "immoral".
I outline this for you because your definition of morality seems muddled and confused. You rightly are appalled by child pornography and sexual predators. These industries and people victimize others and are therefore immoral. Having an affair is immoral because it involves deception of the spouse. Are these problems really getting worse or are we just talking about the problems and paying attention now?
Let me cite one example of sexual problems our society is dealing with better now than before: In previous generations, sexual harassment at work was part of life. A woman had little or no recourse if her boss came on to her. Now our society has turned against the practice and punishes men who stalk and harass. The system isn't perfect but it's getting better.
You are rightly worried about teen pregnancy. Sex needs to be done with responsibility. Conservative attempts to cut sex education and instead fund "abstinence only" have been a disaster, causing increases in teen pregnancy and STDs. Conservative attempts to "legislate morality" have wound up causing much harm.
Mixed in with all your concerns is a lot of railing against pornography and other victimless crimes. If no one is harmed, deceived, forced or intimidated, if their rights are not violated, if activities are engaged with responsibility and integrity, it is not immoral.
I'll get back to the rest later.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
