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evolution
#84
RE: evolution
(March 15, 2022 at 4:06 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:
(March 14, 2022 at 3:10 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: There's being unconvinced by a given explanation of self awareness, and there's being unconvinced that self awareness confers practical advantages to systems.  

There's a reason that we have an entire industry devoted to making self aware machines.  The advantages of self awareness are not open to any credible debate whatsoever.

What constitute self awareness?

Does a machine controlled by a integral computer which uses software model (“digital twin” in industry parlance ) of the machine it is controlling to help make and assess its control decisions possess self-awareness?

I think "What constitutes self-awareness?" is a good question.

To me it seems memory must be involved for "basic awareness" to become self-awareness... even if we just mean foggy, moment to moment short term memory. 

Plus that, there is a reflective process going on, where internal stimuli and external stimuli are conglomerated into one image (like the beetle and "shiny things" internal and external stimuli together paint the picture). 

All this points to consciousness seeming to be the product of long term evolution. Memory being key to self-aware experiences. Plus that, a link between memory and external awareness seems like an evolutionary advantage.

I think Nudger's best point is that none of this explains consciousness any better than the postulate that basic have a kind of awareness. But the question is how does A get tied up in anything else? Like, stars that have a gravitational wobble may be said to be aware of passing celestial bodies. Such things do impact its functions or abilities. Without human basis as to what constitutes an ability, all kinds of things have abilities and are therefore conscious. It seems like postulating a consciousness that stems from ability A winds up in some kind of panpsychism. Nobody wants that.
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Messages In This Thread
evolution - by evolcon - March 7, 2022 at 1:51 pm
RE: evolution - by brewer - March 7, 2022 at 2:49 pm
RE: evolution - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 7, 2022 at 3:09 pm
RE: evolution - by Abaddon_ire - March 7, 2022 at 9:52 pm
RE: evolution - by evolcon - March 7, 2022 at 3:50 pm
RE: evolution - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 7, 2022 at 4:21 pm
RE: evolution - by Silver - March 7, 2022 at 5:51 pm
RE: evolution - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 7, 2022 at 5:54 pm
RE: evolution - by arewethereyet - March 7, 2022 at 5:56 pm
RE: evolution - by onlinebiker - March 7, 2022 at 6:26 pm
RE: evolution - by Paleophyte - March 9, 2022 at 5:50 pm
RE: evolution - by arewethereyet - March 7, 2022 at 3:52 pm
RE: evolution - by onlinebiker - March 7, 2022 at 5:02 pm
RE: evolution - by Nay_Sayer - March 7, 2022 at 5:11 pm
RE: evolution - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - March 7, 2022 at 5:48 pm
RE: evolution - by brewer - March 7, 2022 at 8:33 pm
RE: evolution - by Nay_Sayer - March 7, 2022 at 8:50 pm
RE: evolution - by LadyForCamus - March 8, 2022 at 3:54 pm
RE: evolution - by The Grand Nudger - March 7, 2022 at 6:03 pm
RE: evolution - by Jehanne - March 7, 2022 at 6:29 pm
RE: evolution - by onlinebiker - March 7, 2022 at 6:34 pm
RE: evolution - by Anomalocaris - March 8, 2022 at 10:24 am
RE: evolution - by Gwaithmir - March 8, 2022 at 6:35 am
RE: evolution - by Jehanne - March 8, 2022 at 7:09 am
RE: evolution - by Mermaid - March 8, 2022 at 1:49 pm
RE: evolution - by Ranjr - March 9, 2022 at 6:16 pm
RE: evolution - by Disagreeable - March 10, 2022 at 4:28 am
RE: evolution - by Jehanne - March 10, 2022 at 7:06 am
RE: evolution - by Disagreeable - March 12, 2022 at 5:01 pm
RE: evolution - by Jehanne - March 12, 2022 at 5:34 pm
RE: evolution - by GrandizerII - March 10, 2022 at 8:50 am
RE: evolution - by brewer - March 10, 2022 at 9:00 am
RE: evolution - by Jehanne - March 10, 2022 at 10:28 am
RE: evolution - by Ranjr - March 10, 2022 at 1:23 pm
RE: evolution - by Jehanne - March 10, 2022 at 3:51 pm
RE: evolution - by The Grand Nudger - March 13, 2022 at 1:09 am
RE: evolution - by Rahn127 - March 14, 2022 at 2:59 am
RE: evolution - by Jehanne - March 14, 2022 at 7:11 am
RE: evolution - by Angrboda - March 14, 2022 at 9:13 am
RE: evolution - by The Grand Nudger - March 14, 2022 at 10:35 am
RE: evolution - by Angrboda - March 14, 2022 at 10:48 am
RE: evolution - by The Grand Nudger - March 14, 2022 at 3:10 pm
RE: evolution - by Anomalocaris - March 15, 2022 at 4:06 pm
RE: evolution - by vulcanlogician - March 16, 2022 at 8:31 pm
RE: evolution - by Angrboda - March 14, 2022 at 3:23 pm
RE: evolution - by vulcanlogician - March 14, 2022 at 3:25 pm
RE: evolution - by Anomalocaris - March 14, 2022 at 3:40 pm
RE: evolution - by Angrboda - March 14, 2022 at 4:00 pm
RE: evolution - by The Grand Nudger - March 14, 2022 at 4:35 pm
RE: evolution - by Angrboda - March 14, 2022 at 5:14 pm
RE: evolution - by vulcanlogician - March 14, 2022 at 5:04 pm
RE: evolution - by The Grand Nudger - March 14, 2022 at 5:21 pm
RE: evolution - by Angrboda - March 14, 2022 at 6:48 pm
RE: evolution - by The Grand Nudger - March 14, 2022 at 7:13 pm
RE: evolution - by Angrboda - March 14, 2022 at 7:51 pm
RE: evolution - by The Grand Nudger - March 14, 2022 at 8:37 pm
RE: evolution - by Angrboda - March 15, 2022 at 9:44 am
RE: evolution - by The Grand Nudger - March 15, 2022 at 10:34 am
RE: evolution - by Angrboda - March 15, 2022 at 10:45 am
RE: evolution - by The Grand Nudger - March 15, 2022 at 10:48 am
RE: evolution - by Angrboda - March 15, 2022 at 10:51 am
RE: evolution - by The Grand Nudger - March 15, 2022 at 10:58 am
RE: evolution - by Angrboda - March 15, 2022 at 11:02 am
RE: evolution - by The Grand Nudger - March 15, 2022 at 11:10 am
RE: evolution - by Angrboda - March 15, 2022 at 11:20 am
RE: evolution - by The Grand Nudger - March 15, 2022 at 11:37 am
RE: evolution - by Angrboda - March 15, 2022 at 11:54 am
RE: evolution - by The Grand Nudger - March 15, 2022 at 12:17 pm
RE: evolution - by Angrboda - March 15, 2022 at 1:09 pm
RE: evolution - by Anomalocaris - March 15, 2022 at 1:15 pm
RE: evolution - by The Grand Nudger - March 15, 2022 at 1:18 pm
RE: evolution - by Angrboda - March 15, 2022 at 1:34 pm
RE: evolution - by The Grand Nudger - March 15, 2022 at 1:43 pm
RE: evolution - by Angrboda - March 15, 2022 at 1:53 pm
RE: evolution - by The Grand Nudger - March 15, 2022 at 1:55 pm
RE: evolution - by Angrboda - March 15, 2022 at 2:02 pm
RE: evolution - by The Grand Nudger - March 15, 2022 at 3:11 pm
RE: evolution - by The Grand Nudger - March 15, 2022 at 4:41 pm
RE: evolution - by Anomalocaris - March 15, 2022 at 4:56 pm
RE: evolution - by The Grand Nudger - March 16, 2022 at 10:11 am
RE: evolution - by Anomalocaris - March 16, 2022 at 10:31 am
RE: evolution - by The Grand Nudger - March 16, 2022 at 10:41 am
RE: evolution - by Anomalocaris - March 16, 2022 at 11:11 am
RE: evolution - by The Grand Nudger - March 16, 2022 at 11:43 am
RE: evolution - by Anomalocaris - March 16, 2022 at 10:09 pm
RE: evolution - by The Grand Nudger - March 17, 2022 at 1:59 am
RE: evolution - by Anomalocaris - March 17, 2022 at 2:42 am

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