(August 30, 2022 at 7:38 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote:(August 30, 2022 at 5:54 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: Because you're giving a big hypothetical that's not realistic in the least bit. In your ideal situation, such and such amount of people would get vaccinated and that would have such and such impact on spread. Well, that's never going to happen and that much is beyond obvious. Millions of people are not going to get vaccinated, and if they haven't chosen to do so by now, it's probably not happening, and these people have tens of millions of children that they would never allow to be vaccinated. You're talking about your ideal world, and that's the problem. I'm dealing with the world we're actually living in, not my ideal.
Because presumably, you don't live in a world where people have managed to immunise enough of the population against any disease to make it not be a problem. Presumably, in your world, smallpox and polio are still a problem you have to deal with.
The level of immunization necessary can be done. Just ramp up enforcement. Get rid of as many loopholes as you possibly can. If you don't have a medical condition that makes vaccination not work, or maybe if you don't belong to a religious movement that was anti-vaccine prior to March 2020, don't allow the unvaccinated any excuses to not do so.
If that can't happen now, it's only because we've got a major party that's decided to default to being pro-disease now.
Those vaccines for those other diseases are not comparable to the covid vaccines, and Dr. Deborah Birx said she knew from the start that the vaccines were not going to prevent spread, and that the vaccines were overplayed. Many scientists even admitted that omicron was a far better 'vaccination' than any they could come up with.
I'd rather not live under tyranny like in China where they force you into your home and let you starve to try to get to a zero covid policy. Getting to zero covid is simply not worth what it would cost. It would cause our republics to cease to exist as we know them, and make all the sacrifice our soldiers have made for our countries over the centuries all for naught. You can't force everyone to vaccinate their children and you simply can't take away those tens of millions of children for so called 'child abuse' because the system could never handle that load. So what is the only true solution? Ding ding. It's my solution, and the CDC has come to realize that there's just no way around that, and that anything else would simply destroy society, so unless you're willing to destroy your society just so spread can stop maybe a teeny tiny bit, then I really don't see why this is the hill you want to die on If ifs and buts were candy and nuts.
No one here, and I mean no one actually wants to live in a world where our policy is that we have to save as many lives as possible. Do we put cameras and recording devices in every house in America to catch wife beaters before they can murder their wives? Nope, because we as a society value privacy more than we value human life. Is every car required to be made with a breathalizer or fire extinguisher in it? Nope. We don't care enough about human life as a society to make this law. Would we as a society, take a passed out man at a hospital (who is going to come out of it and be fine), and take all of his organs while he is passed out, because his sacrifice can help several people live rather than just him living? Nope. No one would want to live in a society that simply values the higher quantity of human lives without taking into consideration our rights and freedoms, right? Why don't you support cementing in and banning the production of any new swimming pools? Do you not care about saving human lives? I could do this all day. I think you get the point I'm making. It's like the trolley experiment. If I am forcing a vaccine mandate onto someone else, then I am basically compelling them to have a medical procedure done with their body without their consent, and I am not comfortable in the least with this. If someone, say a serial killer or a Saw type movie character tells me I have to bash in 3 people's heads to in turn save 5 people, although 5 is better than 3, could I actually do that? If I had a real choice and it wasn't a gun to my head situation, I don't think I could do it.
