Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: July 28, 2025, 11:17 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Kalam
#61
RE: Kalam
(December 1, 2022 at 7:17 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:  where in the Kalam does it argue that the event that started the sequence might have stopped, or could stop once the sequence has been initiated? 

As far as I know, Kalam only claims that 1) the universe has a beginning, and 2) the beginning was caused. 

Beyond that I don't think it makes any claims as for whether the cause needs to continue or not. They'd need additional arguments for that. 

If William Lane Craig and those guys have proposed those additional arguments, I've never heard of them. (I'm not a big fan of Craig.)

Again, though, this is sufficient to separate it from Aquinas, who makes no arguments for temporal beginnings. 

Quote:How does anyone know that the chain would continue if the cause of the Big Bang disappeared, especially considering we don’t even know what the cause of the Big Bang is?

There may be all kinds of arguments as to why the cause of the temporal beginning would have to hang around. I have never heard of one.

But such an argument would have to be in addition to the Kalam argument, which only makes the two claims. Given merely those two claims, it is entirely compatible with a Deist clock-making God. 

Whereas in Thomas' argument, the ongoing necessity of the creator is fundamental to his claims. 

Quote:Time is a dimension of even an eternal universe, no?

I think so! Aristotle thought there was no point at which time began. It's just always been running along. Aquinas thought that this was all that could be proved through logic (Natural Theology) and if we believe in a beginning point then we only believe it through unproven revelation.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Kalam - by LinuxGal - November 28, 2022 at 11:07 pm
RE: Kalam - by Belacqua - November 28, 2022 at 11:16 pm
RE: Kalam - by LinuxGal - November 28, 2022 at 11:34 pm
RE: Kalam - by Belacqua - November 28, 2022 at 11:51 pm
RE: Kalam - by LinuxGal - November 29, 2022 at 5:20 am
RE: Kalam - by Belacqua - November 29, 2022 at 6:25 am
RE: Kalam - by Angrboda - November 29, 2022 at 9:47 am
RE: Kalam - by Neo-Scholastic - November 30, 2022 at 7:43 pm
RE: Kalam - by Belacqua - November 30, 2022 at 7:59 pm
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - November 30, 2022 at 8:01 pm
RE: Kalam - by Belacqua - November 30, 2022 at 8:09 pm
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - November 30, 2022 at 9:12 pm
RE: Kalam - by Neo-Scholastic - November 30, 2022 at 9:30 pm
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - November 30, 2022 at 10:24 pm
RE: Kalam - by Belacqua - November 30, 2022 at 9:47 pm
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - November 30, 2022 at 10:38 pm
RE: Kalam - by Belacqua - December 1, 2022 at 12:48 am
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - December 1, 2022 at 7:43 am
RE: Kalam - by LinuxGal - December 1, 2022 at 7:50 am
RE: Kalam - by Belacqua - December 1, 2022 at 8:39 am
RE: Kalam - by Angrboda - December 1, 2022 at 8:50 am
RE: Kalam - by Neo-Scholastic - December 1, 2022 at 10:34 pm
RE: Kalam - by Belacqua - December 1, 2022 at 11:05 pm
RE: Kalam - by Angrboda - December 1, 2022 at 11:06 pm
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - December 2, 2022 at 10:45 am
RE: Kalam - by LadyForCamus - December 1, 2022 at 11:30 pm
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - December 1, 2022 at 10:12 am
RE: Kalam - by LadyForCamus - December 1, 2022 at 3:03 pm
RE: Kalam - by Belacqua - December 1, 2022 at 4:15 pm
RE: Kalam - by LadyForCamus - December 1, 2022 at 7:17 pm
RE: Kalam - by Belacqua - December 1, 2022 at 9:19 pm
RE: Kalam - by Angrboda - December 1, 2022 at 1:03 am
RE: Kalam - by The Architect Of Fate - December 1, 2022 at 2:58 am
RE: Kalam - by Neo-Scholastic - December 1, 2022 at 8:49 am
RE: Kalam - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - December 1, 2022 at 5:08 am
RE: Kalam - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 29, 2022 at 5:29 am
RE: Kalam - by LadyForCamus - December 1, 2022 at 2:51 pm
RE: Kalam - by Belacqua - November 29, 2022 at 6:40 am
RE: Kalam - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - November 29, 2022 at 7:19 am
RE: Kalam - by Angrboda - November 29, 2022 at 9:49 am
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - November 29, 2022 at 10:29 am
RE: Kalam - by Nay_Sayer - November 29, 2022 at 10:30 am
RE: Kalam - by LinuxGal - November 29, 2022 at 11:08 pm
RE: Kalam - by Nay_Sayer - November 30, 2022 at 3:16 am
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - November 29, 2022 at 10:54 am
RE: Kalam - by LinuxGal - November 29, 2022 at 7:56 pm
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - November 29, 2022 at 10:10 pm
RE: Kalam - by LinuxGal - November 29, 2022 at 10:27 pm
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - November 29, 2022 at 10:37 pm
RE: Kalam - by LinuxGal - November 29, 2022 at 10:45 pm
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - November 29, 2022 at 11:01 pm
RE: Kalam - by Deesse23 - November 30, 2022 at 5:04 am
RE: Kalam - by LinuxGal - November 30, 2022 at 6:23 am
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - November 30, 2022 at 7:59 am
RE: Kalam - by LinuxGal - November 30, 2022 at 9:06 am
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - November 30, 2022 at 10:23 am
RE: Kalam - by Deesse23 - November 30, 2022 at 12:37 pm
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - November 30, 2022 at 12:45 pm
RE: Kalam - by Nay_Sayer - November 30, 2022 at 1:26 pm
RE: Kalam - by Angrboda - November 30, 2022 at 6:46 pm
RE: Kalam - by Objectivist - November 29, 2022 at 7:33 pm
RE: Kalam - by Neo-Scholastic - November 30, 2022 at 10:13 pm
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - December 1, 2022 at 5:11 pm
RE: Kalam - by The Architect Of Fate - December 1, 2022 at 6:04 pm
RE: Kalam - by Angrboda - December 1, 2022 at 6:11 pm
RE: Kalam - by Angrboda - December 1, 2022 at 7:34 pm
RE: Kalam - by LinuxGal - December 1, 2022 at 10:10 pm
RE: Kalam - by Neo-Scholastic - December 2, 2022 at 12:25 am
RE: Kalam - by arewethereyet - December 4, 2022 at 1:29 pm
RE: Kalam - by GrandizerII - December 4, 2022 at 10:01 am
RE: Kalam - by emjay - December 4, 2022 at 11:35 am
RE: Kalam - by Belacqua - December 4, 2022 at 5:41 pm
RE: Kalam - by Jehanne - December 4, 2022 at 6:29 pm
RE: Kalam - by LinuxGal - December 6, 2022 at 9:17 pm
RE: Kalam - by Neo-Scholastic - December 6, 2022 at 8:06 pm
RE: Kalam - by Angrboda - December 6, 2022 at 8:11 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  The Kalam Cosmological Argument Disagreeable 123 12988 December 15, 2024 at 6:11 pm
Last Post: BrianSoddingBoru4
  Questions on the Kalam Cosmological argument MindForgedManacle 10 3487 July 26, 2013 at 9:37 am
Last Post: little_monkey



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)