(May 11, 2023 at 7:09 pm)Astreja Wrote:(May 5, 2023 at 11:37 pm)Astreja Wrote: No church or community is "right" if the religion itself is nonsense. I'm not going to waste my time hanging out with people who believe in things like Original Sin, resurrection, heaven and hell.
(May 11, 2023 at 1:15 pm)Kingpin Wrote: Interesting. May I ask why exactly?
First of all, I would feel completely out of a place in a group of people who believe things that I think are ridiculous, unless they're deliberately playing a fun game (for example, engaging in science fiction/fantasy cosplay, dressing up as their favourite characters).
Secondly, here's a breakdown of the elements of Christian belief that I find intolerable and unacceptable:
I'd also like to add to the above the utter repugnance of substitutionary atonement. I believe that it is craven and irresponsible to acquiesce to Jesus (or anyone else) dying in one's place, and reject "salvation" unconditionally.
- Original Sin: Supposedly humanity inherited bad behaviour from Adam and Eve - two obviously mythical proto-humans. I believe strongly in original neutrality, with no bias towards good or evil until the reasoning faculties of the brain are capable of making an informed choice on how to behave.
- Resurrection: From a medical point of view, utterly preposterous and totally lacking in evidence. Discarded as obvious mythology, and not even original mythology, as "god-man comes back to life" is a very common mythological trope in ancient religions.
- Heaven and hell: I believe both to be literally impossible. I do not believe in life after death, and have no desire to live forever anywhere. Furthermore, I am of the opinion that any god that would deliberately create a place of eternal torment is insane and cannot be trusted to do the right thing, particularly not over an eternal timespan. If a hell did exist, not even the most devout believer would be safe for long.
Thank you for the response. I understand the "out of place" comment. Now I have some follow ups:
1. Original sin - Do your feel good/evil are objective truths or subjective notions based on popular societal opinion? I would argue that one cannot even have logical discussions about morality without invoking an absolute morality that transcends space/time/matter.
2. Resurrection - of course from a medical point of view, I agree. That is why it is defined as a miracle. I disagree that it lacks evidence. Even skeptical historians, and at least dozen non-biblical authors affirm Christ existence as a person, the tomb was indeed empty, and the apostles were willing to die to continue to spread news of His resurrection. Even skeptics agree something happened.
3. Heaven and Hell: If it were true these places existed, who should go to either? If God does exist and created all of this and us, on what grounds are we to pass a moral judgment against Him? This one is a common one most people have difficulty with and as a believer I admit it is probably the most difficult. If God is Holy, he must uphold Love and Justice without compromise. If God created a world where all will choose Him and go to Heaven, love is not possible. If you are a parent would you have a child knowing that they will utterly reject you? This has happened to countless parents. Do they love their child any less? No. But without the freedom to choose, we would be automatons, and love is not possible. In a world where love is possible, so is hate. God will not force anyone to love Him.
The substitutional atonement is remarkable showing how much God loves His creation in that He was willing to lay down his own life so that justice of sin was satisfied and mercy and grace given. When you read a news story like that of navy seal, Michael Monsoor, https://militaryhallofhonor.com/honoree-...hp?id=1265 he is hailed as a loving hero. There is no greater act of love than to lie down your life for another.
On what grounds it is irresponsible to accept Jesus atonement that he gives freely? The good news here Astreja is that God does not force you to accept it. If as you stated you do not WANT to live forever anywhere, God will not force you. You have a choice.
One last question, and please answer honestly. If Christianity were TRUE, would you become a Christian?
We are not made happy by what we acquire but by what we appreciate.