RE: Inceldom
September 11, 2023 at 8:57 am
(This post was last modified: September 11, 2023 at 9:11 am by FrustratedFool.)
A) I agree that no matter what evidence is encountered in one's life it would always be strictly false to believe that there is zero possibility of anyone at all ever finding them attractive. Most BPers I've spoken to accept this.
But what I said wasn't that. I asked if based on good evidence would it be rational to think that it was going to be very difficult to find a romantic partner. Not impossible.
I think it fairly clear that it would indeed be rational to conclude that based on that evidence. Do you not agree?
And, of course, this is before we've tackled the issue of whether simply being able to find some romantic partner at some time is enough to remove the trauma or the loneliness. We can address this in the future.
B) We agree. It would in fact be irrational by definition. But it wouldn't be something blameworthy or a sign of weakness or a personality defect if such irrational thinking normally arose from such trauma. It would simply be a normal consequence of trauma arising from being ugly. There seems a direct throughline for some people from being ugly to having body dysmorphia which involves at no point any personal weakness.
C) We agree. So even without mistreatment or any character flaws someone can easily end up mentally ill simply from loneliness.
D) I present those two options because it seems to me that you think that the root issue is psychological rather than physical/practical and I wanted that clarified. If you had the power to choose either it seems that you would use your magic to give them a different attitude than give them a different body. And you seem to justify that choice on some moral 'lesson' value system.
To me that seems both inefficient and unethical, in that you're picking to treat a symptom rather than the disease based on some moral framework you have. Would gender dysphoria, or scarring, or disability be treated the same way? Isn't it nearly always preferable to treat the physical malady that has led to the psychological problem, if possible, rather than try to change the way the sufferer thinks about their malady?
From my own experience, and in talking to many others who have had relationship and sex therapy, it seems to me that psychological approaches to solve this issue aren't very effective. And I certainly can't imagine they are as effective as a physical change would be if it was possible.
But what I said wasn't that. I asked if based on good evidence would it be rational to think that it was going to be very difficult to find a romantic partner. Not impossible.
I think it fairly clear that it would indeed be rational to conclude that based on that evidence. Do you not agree?
And, of course, this is before we've tackled the issue of whether simply being able to find some romantic partner at some time is enough to remove the trauma or the loneliness. We can address this in the future.
B) We agree. It would in fact be irrational by definition. But it wouldn't be something blameworthy or a sign of weakness or a personality defect if such irrational thinking normally arose from such trauma. It would simply be a normal consequence of trauma arising from being ugly. There seems a direct throughline for some people from being ugly to having body dysmorphia which involves at no point any personal weakness.
C) We agree. So even without mistreatment or any character flaws someone can easily end up mentally ill simply from loneliness.
D) I present those two options because it seems to me that you think that the root issue is psychological rather than physical/practical and I wanted that clarified. If you had the power to choose either it seems that you would use your magic to give them a different attitude than give them a different body. And you seem to justify that choice on some moral 'lesson' value system.
To me that seems both inefficient and unethical, in that you're picking to treat a symptom rather than the disease based on some moral framework you have. Would gender dysphoria, or scarring, or disability be treated the same way? Isn't it nearly always preferable to treat the physical malady that has led to the psychological problem, if possible, rather than try to change the way the sufferer thinks about their malady?
From my own experience, and in talking to many others who have had relationship and sex therapy, it seems to me that psychological approaches to solve this issue aren't very effective. And I certainly can't imagine they are as effective as a physical change would be if it was possible.
