A1) Many BPers are hopeless. Most of that is hyperbole. But most accept the idea of outliers in serious conversation. I've spoken to a couple hundred over the years.
A2) The evidence I gave was, "mistreated because of their appearance, been rejected romantically by others because of their appearance, and been directly and indirectly told scores of times that they are ugly and romantically undesirable." That is more than being bullied by a select group. Consider the example of someone who was told directly they were physically unattractive by family members, dozens of school and college peers, multiple strangers in real life and online over a period of a decade, been bullied and mistreated directly because of their looks from childhood into young adulthood, been rejected by every woman they had attempted to flirt or ask out, had no matches on any dating app over a year, and so on. These people exist.
Do you not consider this evidence from which one can rationally conclude that one will find it difficult to date because of their looks? I find it hard to believe anyone would disagree.
A3) In my experience of talking to BPers most would accept that if you haven't had experience of sexual validation by a certain age (say around 21) then you will likely have developed all kinds of mental health issues that won't just go away with a relationship. We agree that loneliness and mental health issues arising from years of loneliness and bullying aren't going to be cured even if they did get a relationship.
B) By ugly I meant 'found physically unattractive by the majority of one's society'. This can be measured by whether one has had the type of life experience I note in A2. Sure, this can change for some: losing weight, aging, plastic surgery, dental work, hair transplants etc - there's huge industries set up for this purpose (which I think undergirds the importance of physical attractiveness). With that in mind, we agree on B.
C) We agree. I've encountered plenty of people who disagree, but some people disagree on everything. It doesn't matter.
D1) I agree that looks aren't the be-all-end-all. But I do believe they are a necessary but not sufficient condition for dating, and are more important than the majority of people outside of BP circles think.
D2) We disagree as to whether the looks or the mindset are the root cause, and most important factor, to solve for those struggling with dating who are ugly (using the definition I gave above). Can we compromise and say (as I genuinely believe) that both looks and mindset should be treated in order to best improve one's dating chances? You may over-emphasise the mind, me the body, but surely we could reach a consensus in saying both would be beneficial to address if you want to increase your dating success?
D3) Yes, the psychological approach is ineffective by experience. And yes, the trauma will still be there if the looks are improved. And yes, chronic emotional loneliness (likely stemming from the trauma) is likely incurable. But if the problem is 'how to improve dating chances' then changing looks for an ugly person improves their chances far more than therapy. Again, we can reach an agreement here that in the case of someone who is lonely and traumatised by a life of mistreatment because of looks that a both/and approach is best? That we would both (and I would, and many times have) recommend to such people both looks improvement and therapy?
A2) The evidence I gave was, "mistreated because of their appearance, been rejected romantically by others because of their appearance, and been directly and indirectly told scores of times that they are ugly and romantically undesirable." That is more than being bullied by a select group. Consider the example of someone who was told directly they were physically unattractive by family members, dozens of school and college peers, multiple strangers in real life and online over a period of a decade, been bullied and mistreated directly because of their looks from childhood into young adulthood, been rejected by every woman they had attempted to flirt or ask out, had no matches on any dating app over a year, and so on. These people exist.
Do you not consider this evidence from which one can rationally conclude that one will find it difficult to date because of their looks? I find it hard to believe anyone would disagree.
A3) In my experience of talking to BPers most would accept that if you haven't had experience of sexual validation by a certain age (say around 21) then you will likely have developed all kinds of mental health issues that won't just go away with a relationship. We agree that loneliness and mental health issues arising from years of loneliness and bullying aren't going to be cured even if they did get a relationship.
B) By ugly I meant 'found physically unattractive by the majority of one's society'. This can be measured by whether one has had the type of life experience I note in A2. Sure, this can change for some: losing weight, aging, plastic surgery, dental work, hair transplants etc - there's huge industries set up for this purpose (which I think undergirds the importance of physical attractiveness). With that in mind, we agree on B.
C) We agree. I've encountered plenty of people who disagree, but some people disagree on everything. It doesn't matter.
D1) I agree that looks aren't the be-all-end-all. But I do believe they are a necessary but not sufficient condition for dating, and are more important than the majority of people outside of BP circles think.
D2) We disagree as to whether the looks or the mindset are the root cause, and most important factor, to solve for those struggling with dating who are ugly (using the definition I gave above). Can we compromise and say (as I genuinely believe) that both looks and mindset should be treated in order to best improve one's dating chances? You may over-emphasise the mind, me the body, but surely we could reach a consensus in saying both would be beneficial to address if you want to increase your dating success?
D3) Yes, the psychological approach is ineffective by experience. And yes, the trauma will still be there if the looks are improved. And yes, chronic emotional loneliness (likely stemming from the trauma) is likely incurable. But if the problem is 'how to improve dating chances' then changing looks for an ugly person improves their chances far more than therapy. Again, we can reach an agreement here that in the case of someone who is lonely and traumatised by a life of mistreatment because of looks that a both/and approach is best? That we would both (and I would, and many times have) recommend to such people both looks improvement and therapy?
