RE: Argument against atheism
December 20, 2011 at 11:40 am
(This post was last modified: December 20, 2011 at 11:52 am by amkerman.)
My revisions, after many peopple have sucessfully acknowledged the many gaps in my original argument.
If one believes in objective reality then one believes in something that would correctly be termed "God".
(definitions I have are from dictionary.com)
Belief is defined as confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof
Objectivity is defined aas that which is not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or predjudice; it is based on facts; it is unbiased
Reality is defined as something that exists independently of the ideas which concern it.
A belief that things are objectively "real" then necessitates that one is confident in the truth or existence of reality which is not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof. That belief is not influenced by personal feelings or interpretations, but exists independently of the ideas which concern it.
All human observation is based on conscious thought.
- Concsiousness is defined as the awareness of one's own existence and being, sensation, thought, surroundings, etc
- There is no empirical evidence to suggest any of our conscious observations exist outside the scope of our own consciousness (Can not prove)
- All emprirical evidence is based on what humans have seen, heard, smelled, tasted, or touched
- These senses are constructs of a conscious mind
A belief that anything is objectively real, therefore, necessitates a belief that consciousness is real
- consciousness is the only tool humans have to observe the universe and draw conclusions and inference about that universe from
If one believes in things are objectively real consciousness must be believed to exist independently of the ideas which concern it.
- if consciousness does not exist independently of the ideas which concern it, then one can not logically have confidence in any of the observations humanity has made about the universe.
- One cannot be confident of the truth or existence of something which is not influenced by personal feelings which exists independently of the ideas which concern it if one cannot be confident in the truth or existence of their own existence, being, sensations, thoughts, surroundings, etc.
If one believes that consciousness is objectively real then by definition one believes consciousness exists independently of ones ideas which concern it.
In human experience and scientific achievement, things that are accepted as objectively true outside the realm of human consciousness and observation humanity has termed "forces of nature", "univeral laws", or "functions of the universe" (possibly baseless claim, still trying to refine this mess)
- laws of physics are believed to exist outside of consciousness
- motion
- thermodynamics
- etc
If consciousness is believed to be objectlvely real, it would correctly be termed a function of the universe
Functions of the universe are believed to bind all matter within the universe
- they pervade everything, nothing has been observed in the universe which is not bound by the universes own laws
Functions of the universe are normally described as singular and constant tinges, rather than multifarious or malleable
- atoms, molecules, humans, plants, animals, stars, planets, galaxies, time, and space are not thought to be able to escape the forces of the universe which act upon them; everything is believed to be inextricably bound by the laws of the universe, including th universe itself
- the forces and laws of the universe created the universe (not sure whether this statement needs validation)
God is defined as the sole supreme beinng, eternal and transcendent, who is the creator and ruler of all and is infinite in all attributes
... therefore: if one believes in objective reality, one must have confidence that consciousness not influenced by personal feelings or interpretations exists independently of the ideas which concern it even though consciousness is not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof. If one believes in consciousness then one must believe consciousness is a function of the universe acting on everything within the universe and the universe itself. That belief would correctly be called a belief in "God", a being which is eternal and transcendent, creator and ruler of all and infinite in all attributes.
Yes? No? Word Salad? (i found myself annoyingly repetitious while writing this)
There was some discussion of how I equate truth and reality and knowledge a few pages back; without actually going into any depth I will just state that they are the same thing. You can't have knowledge of something that doesn't exist, and things that don't exist can't be true. The only things which one may have knowledge of are things that actually exist. If things actually exist they are real. If things are real they are inherently true. The terms, in my limited opinion, are merely different iterations of what it means to exist.
So ultimately, It requires "faith in God" to believe in objective reality. Again, for anyone who may be new, I am not claiming that objective reality or God exist, just arguing that the belief in the former required what could be defined as a belief in the latter. I am making not claims as to what "God's" properties are or would be should "God" exist.
If one believes in objective reality then one believes in something that would correctly be termed "God".
(definitions I have are from dictionary.com)
Belief is defined as confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof
Objectivity is defined aas that which is not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or predjudice; it is based on facts; it is unbiased
Reality is defined as something that exists independently of the ideas which concern it.
A belief that things are objectively "real" then necessitates that one is confident in the truth or existence of reality which is not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof. That belief is not influenced by personal feelings or interpretations, but exists independently of the ideas which concern it.
All human observation is based on conscious thought.
- Concsiousness is defined as the awareness of one's own existence and being, sensation, thought, surroundings, etc
- There is no empirical evidence to suggest any of our conscious observations exist outside the scope of our own consciousness (Can not prove)
- All emprirical evidence is based on what humans have seen, heard, smelled, tasted, or touched
- These senses are constructs of a conscious mind
A belief that anything is objectively real, therefore, necessitates a belief that consciousness is real
- consciousness is the only tool humans have to observe the universe and draw conclusions and inference about that universe from
If one believes in things are objectively real consciousness must be believed to exist independently of the ideas which concern it.
- if consciousness does not exist independently of the ideas which concern it, then one can not logically have confidence in any of the observations humanity has made about the universe.
- One cannot be confident of the truth or existence of something which is not influenced by personal feelings which exists independently of the ideas which concern it if one cannot be confident in the truth or existence of their own existence, being, sensations, thoughts, surroundings, etc.
If one believes that consciousness is objectively real then by definition one believes consciousness exists independently of ones ideas which concern it.
In human experience and scientific achievement, things that are accepted as objectively true outside the realm of human consciousness and observation humanity has termed "forces of nature", "univeral laws", or "functions of the universe" (possibly baseless claim, still trying to refine this mess)
- laws of physics are believed to exist outside of consciousness
- motion
- thermodynamics
- etc
If consciousness is believed to be objectlvely real, it would correctly be termed a function of the universe
Functions of the universe are believed to bind all matter within the universe
- they pervade everything, nothing has been observed in the universe which is not bound by the universes own laws
Functions of the universe are normally described as singular and constant tinges, rather than multifarious or malleable
- atoms, molecules, humans, plants, animals, stars, planets, galaxies, time, and space are not thought to be able to escape the forces of the universe which act upon them; everything is believed to be inextricably bound by the laws of the universe, including th universe itself
- the forces and laws of the universe created the universe (not sure whether this statement needs validation)
God is defined as the sole supreme beinng, eternal and transcendent, who is the creator and ruler of all and is infinite in all attributes
... therefore: if one believes in objective reality, one must have confidence that consciousness not influenced by personal feelings or interpretations exists independently of the ideas which concern it even though consciousness is not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof. If one believes in consciousness then one must believe consciousness is a function of the universe acting on everything within the universe and the universe itself. That belief would correctly be called a belief in "God", a being which is eternal and transcendent, creator and ruler of all and infinite in all attributes.
Yes? No? Word Salad? (i found myself annoyingly repetitious while writing this)
There was some discussion of how I equate truth and reality and knowledge a few pages back; without actually going into any depth I will just state that they are the same thing. You can't have knowledge of something that doesn't exist, and things that don't exist can't be true. The only things which one may have knowledge of are things that actually exist. If things actually exist they are real. If things are real they are inherently true. The terms, in my limited opinion, are merely different iterations of what it means to exist.
So ultimately, It requires "faith in God" to believe in objective reality. Again, for anyone who may be new, I am not claiming that objective reality or God exist, just arguing that the belief in the former required what could be defined as a belief in the latter. I am making not claims as to what "God's" properties are or would be should "God" exist.