Dear Atheists: what would convince you God/Christ is Real?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Good Morning, All,

Happy weekend!

It doesn't make any difference no matter how we concieve of it.  If, for example, we propose that god is not a thing..then every thing still popped into existence from...not a thing.

I’d like to respond to this. Mostly for the digital archeologists who will find this in the far, far future. (like in five years :-)

I would agree that we (theists and philosophers who think about this stuff) say that every thing pops into existence from not a thing. I have no problem with that. I am not saying stuff pops into existence from nothing, though.

If we call “thing” as something from this universe, e.g. quantum foam, rocks, lizards, gravitational fields, then no, God is not a thing. God is spirit. We can think of our own spirit since we know it best. Spirit is that in us by which we know and love. Our body knows nothing. It loves nothing. Bodily pleasures are not even enjoyed by the body. It does react physically to them, but it is the knowing mind that enjoys the reactions or doesn’t.

So, yes. All things in the universe popped into existence from an eternal spirit. They have to come from somewhere. The universe can’t come from itself. Further, this source from outside the universe has to be eternal, that is has no beginning (or end). As before, if it has a beginning, then what created it?

That does not mean the eternal spirit is the Christian God. I am not making that leap here.

That's why this argument fails.  Not on any item of disputable fact - it's worse, the form of the argument (natch) is faulty.  You could plug in nothing but absolute facts and it still wouldn't be informative....but that's christianity for you.  

I concur. Without the concept of spirit, the argument falls apart.

TGN,

Which is not, in point of fact, anything to do with the god of classical theology.  

I’m missing something. Why does this (the argument?) not have anything to do with the god of classical theology? What am I missing in what you’re saying?

I’m unclear about the difference between ‘nothing’ and ‘not a thing’. Smells an awful lot like special pleading.

Boru