(March 6, 2024 at 4:55 pm)Jillybean Wrote: Thanks for this post that greatly enhances the discussion. I appreciate your comments, and this is definitely how I see Stoicism - not as indifferent to others at all, but simply acknowledging that we can't control (or often even understand) others' behaviour, so we should focus on making our own behaviour the best it can be.
Thank you for your kind words here! I really do enjoy good grownup give-and-take on these issues, so I appreciate your starting threads on these good topics.
Quote:- Honestly I wish that the Stoics had included Compassion among the virtues, however from my reading it seems like many Stoics were naturally sensitive, empathetic people who may have suffered somewhat from this trait and were sort of arming themselves against undue suffering by focusing on other virtues. Ryan Holiday points out that many Stoics endured losses most of us will not experience in the modern world (at least in developed nations) like the deaths of several of their own young children. I'm currently reading Marcus Aurelius (Meditations) and I find him to be perhaps my favourite Stoic -- not just because of what he said and did, but what he did NOT do. Obviously other Roman Emperors used their power to fully indulge themselves, including in vices like lust, intemperance and cruelty. MA fought against even allowing himself to linger in bed in the mornings! I'm not sure I would have that kind of virtue in his position, lol.
Yes, I think we (mostly) live in very fortunate times and places. Obviously there are people suffering now as much as anyone has ever suffered, but I have had the great good luck to be secure and away from those things. Reading about the Greeks and Romans, in what we consider to be their Golden Ages, it's shocking to see how close they always were to total loss. Not just because an abscessed tooth could kill you, but because it really was possible to be on the losing side of a political argument and get sold into slavery.
What you say about Marcus Aurelius ties into what we were saying about how the Stoic works on himself. No doubt many powerful people in history have lectured the rank and file on good behavior, while living decadent lives at home. An outward-oriented morality, which focusses on scolding others, seems unlikely to inspire loyalty.
Naturally I think that if I were emperor, I would be a good and wise one. But given the opportunity it's just as likely that I'd hand over power to a regent, buy myself a palazzo in Venice, and hire a large staff of beautiful women. Not Stoic, in other words.
