(June 3, 2024 at 3:31 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:(June 3, 2024 at 2:09 am)Lucian Wrote: Completely agree with that last statement. I am an atheist now for the same reason that I lack belief in ghosts, yetis, loch ness monster etc. I don't want to conflate philosophical arguments for my position with the reason I believe my position, the same way that I don't belief philosophy and apologetics are the reason most Christians believe what they do
I do however think it is interesting to think through the implications of the lack of belief, and to see whether there are good arguments that can modulate how strongly I should lack that belief. At the moment I am more on the "balance of probability" part of the scale that runs from 100% confidence in the belief of gods, to 100% confidence in lack of belief. So philosophical arguments have some benefit there. Also, if I want to adopt the position of atheist that says that there are no gods, which is the definition I hold to for me, rather than just "I lack belief", and I want someone to understand that position and offer a positive case for it, then it is nice to have something to say beyond asking that person to just prove their case.
Other than the frippery bits round the edges (no tithes, it frees up your Sunday mornings, etc), I'm not sure that a positive philosophical case can be made for atheism. Atheists are not necessarily kinder, happier, more successful in business, or more moral than theists. Talents in the arts and sciences don't seem to correlate in any significant with religious belief or its lack. Atheists aren't better athletes, students, fishermen, farmers, or auto mechanics.
I don't see my atheism as something that needs philosophical justification. It simply...is.
Boru
I agree there doesn’t NEED to be a positive case. That said I think some are possible. Error theory doesn’t do it though, it is just an interesting topic that can have an impact on the debate about theism, but doesnt necessarily
I think a positive case can be made for atheism, such as “what would we expect to see in a universe that is governed by purely naturalistic reasons” and seeing if that is the case. Then I agree with Oppy though, there is no knock down argument that will convince everyone. And definitely nothing can be proved to mathematic certainty