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Hello soulcalm17
RE: Hello soulcalm17
(July 31, 2024 at 6:20 am)Sheldon Wrote: unless sufficient objective evidence can be demonstrated that a deity is possible, and exists

I'm curious why you think that a God, if it existed, would be the sort of thing that could be demonstrated with objective evidence. It looks to me as though you may be begging the question or assuming the conclusion (Latin: petītiō principiī), an informal fallacy. 

I say this because in the Western theological and philosophical tradition, no one says that God is known through empirical evidence. Beginning with Plato and Aristotle, on through Plotinus, and of course all the way through Spinoza and Hegel, God is not a sensible object (that is, knowable through the senses) but an intelligible object (known only through the mind). 

In general, the philosophers' chain of reasoning begins with something undeniable about the world -- e.g. "there is something rather than nothing," or "things change." From there their reasons for concluding that a God exists are not empirical ones. No philosopher you can name relies on the "we have no other explanation therefore God" fallacy that you point to.

Some theologians rely on prophecy or revelation for specific aspects of their God -- for example, that he is a trinity. But all of them also hold that through natural theology -- without special revelation -- the existence of God can be proven. Just not with the sort of evidence that science uses. 

For these people, demanding empirical evidence for God would be like looking for a very large prime number with a telescope. That would be a category error, using sensible means to look for an intelligible object. 

I'm NOT saying you should accept any of the arguments that these people have made. I'm only pointing out that your demand for a certain kind of evidence leaves unaddressed all of the philosophical and theological reasons people have for believing in God.
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Messages In This Thread
Hello soulcalm17 - by Ferrocyanide - July 10, 2024 at 11:32 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Ferrocyanide - July 10, 2024 at 11:39 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 11, 2024 at 4:08 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Ferrocyanide - July 11, 2024 at 8:26 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 11, 2024 at 5:44 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Paleophyte - July 11, 2024 at 7:31 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by brewer - July 11, 2024 at 7:29 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 11, 2024 at 10:01 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Thumpalumpacus - July 11, 2024 at 9:33 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 11, 2024 at 11:07 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Ferrocyanide - July 12, 2024 at 9:18 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 13, 2024 at 12:15 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 13, 2024 at 12:55 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Nay_Sayer - July 13, 2024 at 3:21 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 15, 2024 at 9:08 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Paleophyte - July 19, 2024 at 2:52 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 22, 2024 at 5:20 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Paleophyte - July 22, 2024 at 8:42 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Ferrocyanide - July 14, 2024 at 2:30 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 15, 2024 at 3:58 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 15, 2024 at 10:38 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 15, 2024 at 9:13 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by brewer - July 16, 2024 at 8:30 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - August 1, 2024 at 2:46 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Nay_Sayer - July 15, 2024 at 12:25 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 15, 2024 at 9:10 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Nay_Sayer - July 16, 2024 at 2:31 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 16, 2024 at 6:15 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Nay_Sayer - July 16, 2024 at 11:55 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 15, 2024 at 10:25 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 16, 2024 at 12:20 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 11, 2024 at 11:28 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 11, 2024 at 12:39 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 11, 2024 at 6:56 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - July 11, 2024 at 7:17 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by arewethereyet - July 11, 2024 at 11:41 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 11, 2024 at 5:59 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by arewethereyet - July 11, 2024 at 6:40 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by brewer - July 11, 2024 at 11:42 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by h4ym4n - July 11, 2024 at 4:00 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 11, 2024 at 7:04 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 11, 2024 at 7:23 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by arewethereyet - July 11, 2024 at 7:20 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - July 11, 2024 at 7:21 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 11, 2024 at 7:39 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - July 11, 2024 at 8:09 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 11, 2024 at 9:28 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 12, 2024 at 6:48 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - July 12, 2024 at 9:35 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Paleophyte - July 12, 2024 at 10:46 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - July 12, 2024 at 11:01 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Paleophyte - July 12, 2024 at 10:20 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - July 12, 2024 at 10:42 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Paleophyte - July 12, 2024 at 11:02 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - July 12, 2024 at 11:10 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Paleophyte - July 12, 2024 at 11:35 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - July 12, 2024 at 11:50 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Paleophyte - July 13, 2024 at 2:22 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - July 13, 2024 at 2:39 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by arewethereyet - July 11, 2024 at 7:24 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - July 11, 2024 at 7:27 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by arewethereyet - July 11, 2024 at 9:40 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by arewethereyet - July 12, 2024 at 1:49 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Nay_Sayer - July 12, 2024 at 9:40 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Paleophyte - July 12, 2024 at 11:22 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 12, 2024 at 11:54 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 13, 2024 at 10:58 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by arewethereyet - July 13, 2024 at 12:32 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 13, 2024 at 7:38 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 14, 2024 at 12:00 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - July 14, 2024 at 2:29 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Paleophyte - July 14, 2024 at 7:42 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 14, 2024 at 5:19 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - July 14, 2024 at 5:50 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Nay_Sayer - July 14, 2024 at 2:33 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - July 15, 2024 at 9:12 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 15, 2024 at 9:20 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 15, 2024 at 10:33 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - July 15, 2024 at 10:27 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 15, 2024 at 11:17 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 15, 2024 at 11:31 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 15, 2024 at 11:34 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 16, 2024 at 12:31 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 16, 2024 at 1:38 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 16, 2024 at 6:29 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by arewethereyet - July 16, 2024 at 6:40 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 16, 2024 at 10:44 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Ferrocyanide - July 17, 2024 at 2:16 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Ferrocyanide - July 17, 2024 at 2:10 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 22, 2024 at 1:51 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 22, 2024 at 1:58 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 22, 2024 at 2:04 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 22, 2024 at 2:15 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - July 15, 2024 at 11:45 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - July 16, 2024 at 12:34 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - July 16, 2024 at 6:21 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 17, 2024 at 2:29 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 17, 2024 at 9:39 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 17, 2024 at 10:08 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Ferrocyanide - July 18, 2024 at 11:43 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 25, 2024 at 10:35 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 26, 2024 at 4:19 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - July 26, 2024 at 7:28 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 30, 2024 at 5:08 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - July 30, 2024 at 5:38 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 31, 2024 at 2:20 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - July 31, 2024 at 4:46 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 31, 2024 at 9:53 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - August 1, 2024 at 4:55 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Paleophyte - July 26, 2024 at 9:24 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 18, 2024 at 1:58 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 18, 2024 at 6:49 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Mister Agenda - July 18, 2024 at 12:53 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 18, 2024 at 8:21 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Nay_Sayer - July 18, 2024 at 3:08 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Nay_Sayer - July 18, 2024 at 12:05 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Angrboda - July 18, 2024 at 12:34 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Nay_Sayer - July 18, 2024 at 12:39 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Disagreeable - July 18, 2024 at 12:19 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - July 22, 2024 at 5:24 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 22, 2024 at 12:15 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 25, 2024 at 10:42 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 26, 2024 at 3:04 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 30, 2024 at 4:22 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - July 30, 2024 at 4:40 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - July 30, 2024 at 4:57 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 30, 2024 at 5:39 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2024 at 4:54 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - July 31, 2024 at 6:20 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - July 31, 2024 at 7:16 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - July 31, 2024 at 8:40 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - July 31, 2024 at 8:40 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Paleophyte - July 31, 2024 at 5:45 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - July 31, 2024 at 6:38 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - July 31, 2024 at 10:05 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - August 1, 2024 at 5:53 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - August 1, 2024 at 6:42 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - August 1, 2024 at 8:09 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - August 1, 2024 at 5:01 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - August 1, 2024 at 7:44 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - August 1, 2024 at 8:04 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - August 2, 2024 at 4:32 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - August 2, 2024 at 5:38 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - August 2, 2024 at 6:11 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Paleophyte - August 1, 2024 at 1:33 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - July 31, 2024 at 9:58 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2024 at 10:33 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by arewethereyet - August 1, 2024 at 8:40 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Ivan Denisovich - August 1, 2024 at 9:27 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - August 1, 2024 at 10:26 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Ivan Denisovich - August 1, 2024 at 12:55 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 1, 2024 at 5:37 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - August 1, 2024 at 8:09 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - August 1, 2024 at 9:38 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - August 2, 2024 at 5:14 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by arewethereyet - August 1, 2024 at 8:10 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - August 1, 2024 at 8:11 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - August 1, 2024 at 9:40 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - August 1, 2024 at 10:04 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - August 1, 2024 at 10:13 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - August 1, 2024 at 10:22 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - August 2, 2024 at 5:28 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - August 2, 2024 at 4:43 am
To All - by soulcalm17 - August 1, 2024 at 11:09 pm
RE: To All - by Mister Agenda - August 2, 2024 at 11:33 am
RE: To All - by soulcalm17 - August 4, 2024 at 10:27 pm
RE: To All - by Sheldon - August 5, 2024 at 5:06 am
RE: To All - by Mister Agenda - August 5, 2024 at 12:51 pm
RE: To All - by Mister Agenda - August 5, 2024 at 12:56 pm
RE: To All - by Paleophyte - August 5, 2024 at 3:45 pm
RE: To All - by Disagreeable - August 6, 2024 at 10:26 am
RE: To All - by Paleophyte - August 5, 2024 at 3:45 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 2, 2024 at 7:07 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Angrboda - August 2, 2024 at 7:25 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 7, 2024 at 7:19 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2024 at 11:17 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - August 4, 2024 at 10:46 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - August 4, 2024 at 10:48 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - August 4, 2024 at 10:50 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - August 4, 2024 at 10:59 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - August 5, 2024 at 1:03 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - August 6, 2024 at 9:54 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - August 6, 2024 at 10:57 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - August 7, 2024 at 4:52 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - August 6, 2024 at 11:08 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Disagreeable - August 7, 2024 at 7:46 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Mister Agenda - August 7, 2024 at 3:59 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - August 7, 2024 at 5:55 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - August 8, 2024 at 4:04 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 8, 2024 at 4:12 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Paleophyte - August 8, 2024 at 4:45 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - August 8, 2024 at 5:07 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - August 8, 2024 at 7:17 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by brewer - August 8, 2024 at 5:18 pm



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