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Hello soulcalm17
RE: Hello soulcalm17
(July 31, 2024 at 6:38 pm)Sheldon Wrote:
Quote:I'm curious why you think that a God, if it existed, would be the sort of thing that could be demonstrated with objective evidence. 

Exist
verb
1. have objective reality or being.

I should have started with this really, mea culpa maxima.

I'm not quite sure how you're using the word "objective." Are you sure that something which has objective being will necessarily be provable through objective evidence? And I'm not clear what you mean by "objective evidence." I assumed you meant science-type evidence -- empirical, repeatable, testable, quantifiable. But I guess you're not using objective and scientific as synonyms here.

Anyway, you've gone with the first definition on Google, but Merriam Webster has this:

Quote:exist
x·ist ig-ˈzist 
existed; existing; exists
intransitive verb
1a: to have real being whether material or spiritual"

That leaves open the question of whether spiritual things exist. As I'm understanding your view of metaphysics, you think they don't. 

And of course there are all kinds of open questions we could raise. For example, do numbers exist? Some people say they do, and some say they don't. If they exist, they are not detectable through sensory tests. For Plato and many others, God is more like a number or a concept than he is like a physical being. 

Does justice exist? It is an intelligible thing, because while we may see the results of justice, or see just acts, we never see justice itself. And many people see God as being more along those lines.

If you want to define existence as something that is detectable by science, then of course theologians agree with you that God doesn't exist in that way. Since I'm not sure how you're using the word "objective," I can't say whether the arguments the theologians and philosophers use are what you would call objective. They are not subjective in the sense that our perceptions of them differ from person to person -- the arguments are there, and unchanging, written down.

I'm not willing to use "objective interpretation" as a synonym for "a literal interpretation." Because for example when Jesus talks about seeds cast on stony ground that don't take root, an objective person would NOT conclude that he's giving advice about agriculture. Objective analysis sees that he's using a metaphor. Likewise, if I say "That guy has really made his way up in the company," an objective listener would not assume that the guy has travelled vertically to a higher floor. The non-literal meaning would be clear to an objective listener.
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Messages In This Thread
Hello soulcalm17 - by Ferrocyanide - July 10, 2024 at 11:32 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Ferrocyanide - July 10, 2024 at 11:39 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 11, 2024 at 4:08 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Ferrocyanide - July 11, 2024 at 8:26 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 11, 2024 at 5:44 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Paleophyte - July 11, 2024 at 7:31 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by brewer - July 11, 2024 at 7:29 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 11, 2024 at 10:01 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Thumpalumpacus - July 11, 2024 at 9:33 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 11, 2024 at 11:07 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Ferrocyanide - July 12, 2024 at 9:18 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 13, 2024 at 12:15 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 13, 2024 at 12:55 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Nay_Sayer - July 13, 2024 at 3:21 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 15, 2024 at 9:08 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Paleophyte - July 19, 2024 at 2:52 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 22, 2024 at 5:20 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Paleophyte - July 22, 2024 at 8:42 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Ferrocyanide - July 14, 2024 at 2:30 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 15, 2024 at 3:58 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 15, 2024 at 10:38 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 15, 2024 at 9:13 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by brewer - July 16, 2024 at 8:30 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - August 1, 2024 at 2:46 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Nay_Sayer - July 15, 2024 at 12:25 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 15, 2024 at 9:10 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Nay_Sayer - July 16, 2024 at 2:31 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 16, 2024 at 6:15 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Nay_Sayer - July 16, 2024 at 11:55 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 15, 2024 at 10:25 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 16, 2024 at 12:20 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 11, 2024 at 11:28 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 11, 2024 at 12:39 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 11, 2024 at 6:56 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - July 11, 2024 at 7:17 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by arewethereyet - July 11, 2024 at 11:41 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 11, 2024 at 5:59 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by arewethereyet - July 11, 2024 at 6:40 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by brewer - July 11, 2024 at 11:42 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by h4ym4n - July 11, 2024 at 4:00 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - July 11, 2024 at 7:04 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 11, 2024 at 7:23 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by arewethereyet - July 11, 2024 at 7:20 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - July 11, 2024 at 7:21 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 11, 2024 at 7:39 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - July 11, 2024 at 8:09 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 11, 2024 at 9:28 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 12, 2024 at 6:48 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - July 12, 2024 at 9:35 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Paleophyte - July 12, 2024 at 10:46 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - July 12, 2024 at 11:01 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Paleophyte - July 12, 2024 at 10:20 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - July 12, 2024 at 10:42 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Paleophyte - July 12, 2024 at 11:02 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - July 12, 2024 at 11:10 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Paleophyte - July 12, 2024 at 11:35 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - July 12, 2024 at 11:50 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Paleophyte - July 13, 2024 at 2:22 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - July 13, 2024 at 2:39 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by arewethereyet - July 11, 2024 at 7:24 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - July 11, 2024 at 7:27 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by arewethereyet - July 11, 2024 at 9:40 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by arewethereyet - July 12, 2024 at 1:49 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Nay_Sayer - July 12, 2024 at 9:40 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Paleophyte - July 12, 2024 at 11:22 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 12, 2024 at 11:54 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 13, 2024 at 10:58 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by arewethereyet - July 13, 2024 at 12:32 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 13, 2024 at 7:38 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 14, 2024 at 12:00 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - July 14, 2024 at 2:29 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Paleophyte - July 14, 2024 at 7:42 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 14, 2024 at 5:19 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - July 14, 2024 at 5:50 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Nay_Sayer - July 14, 2024 at 2:33 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - July 15, 2024 at 9:12 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 15, 2024 at 9:20 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 15, 2024 at 10:33 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - July 15, 2024 at 10:27 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 15, 2024 at 11:17 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 15, 2024 at 11:31 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 15, 2024 at 11:34 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 16, 2024 at 12:31 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 16, 2024 at 1:38 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 16, 2024 at 6:29 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by arewethereyet - July 16, 2024 at 6:40 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 16, 2024 at 10:44 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Ferrocyanide - July 17, 2024 at 2:16 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Ferrocyanide - July 17, 2024 at 2:10 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 22, 2024 at 1:51 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 22, 2024 at 1:58 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 22, 2024 at 2:04 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 22, 2024 at 2:15 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - July 15, 2024 at 11:45 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - July 16, 2024 at 12:34 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - July 16, 2024 at 6:21 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 17, 2024 at 2:29 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 17, 2024 at 9:39 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 17, 2024 at 10:08 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Ferrocyanide - July 18, 2024 at 11:43 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 25, 2024 at 10:35 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 26, 2024 at 4:19 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - July 26, 2024 at 7:28 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 30, 2024 at 5:08 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - July 30, 2024 at 5:38 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 31, 2024 at 2:20 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - July 31, 2024 at 4:46 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 31, 2024 at 9:53 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - August 1, 2024 at 4:55 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Paleophyte - July 26, 2024 at 9:24 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 18, 2024 at 1:58 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 18, 2024 at 6:49 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Mister Agenda - July 18, 2024 at 12:53 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 18, 2024 at 8:21 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Nay_Sayer - July 18, 2024 at 3:08 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Nay_Sayer - July 18, 2024 at 12:05 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Angrboda - July 18, 2024 at 12:34 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Nay_Sayer - July 18, 2024 at 12:39 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Disagreeable - July 18, 2024 at 12:19 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - July 22, 2024 at 5:24 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 22, 2024 at 12:15 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 25, 2024 at 10:42 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 26, 2024 at 3:04 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - July 30, 2024 at 4:22 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - July 30, 2024 at 4:40 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - July 30, 2024 at 4:57 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 30, 2024 at 5:39 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2024 at 4:54 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - July 31, 2024 at 6:20 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - July 31, 2024 at 7:16 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - July 31, 2024 at 8:40 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - July 31, 2024 at 8:40 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Paleophyte - July 31, 2024 at 5:45 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - July 31, 2024 at 6:38 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - July 31, 2024 at 10:05 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - August 1, 2024 at 5:53 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - August 1, 2024 at 6:42 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - August 1, 2024 at 8:09 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - August 1, 2024 at 5:01 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - August 1, 2024 at 7:44 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - August 1, 2024 at 8:04 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - August 2, 2024 at 4:32 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - August 2, 2024 at 5:38 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - August 2, 2024 at 6:11 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Paleophyte - August 1, 2024 at 1:33 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - July 31, 2024 at 9:58 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - July 31, 2024 at 10:33 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by arewethereyet - August 1, 2024 at 8:40 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Ivan Denisovich - August 1, 2024 at 9:27 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - August 1, 2024 at 10:26 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Ivan Denisovich - August 1, 2024 at 12:55 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 1, 2024 at 5:37 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - August 1, 2024 at 8:09 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - August 1, 2024 at 9:38 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - August 2, 2024 at 5:14 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by arewethereyet - August 1, 2024 at 8:10 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - August 1, 2024 at 8:11 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - August 1, 2024 at 9:40 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - August 1, 2024 at 10:04 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - August 1, 2024 at 10:13 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Belacqua - August 1, 2024 at 10:22 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - August 2, 2024 at 5:28 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - August 2, 2024 at 4:43 am
To All - by soulcalm17 - August 1, 2024 at 11:09 pm
RE: To All - by Mister Agenda - August 2, 2024 at 11:33 am
RE: To All - by soulcalm17 - August 4, 2024 at 10:27 pm
RE: To All - by Sheldon - August 5, 2024 at 5:06 am
RE: To All - by Mister Agenda - August 5, 2024 at 12:51 pm
RE: To All - by Mister Agenda - August 5, 2024 at 12:56 pm
RE: To All - by Paleophyte - August 5, 2024 at 3:45 pm
RE: To All - by Disagreeable - August 6, 2024 at 10:26 am
RE: To All - by Paleophyte - August 5, 2024 at 3:45 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 2, 2024 at 7:07 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Angrboda - August 2, 2024 at 7:25 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 7, 2024 at 7:19 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - August 2, 2024 at 11:17 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - August 4, 2024 at 10:46 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - August 4, 2024 at 10:48 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - August 4, 2024 at 10:50 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - August 4, 2024 at 10:59 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - August 5, 2024 at 1:03 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - August 6, 2024 at 9:54 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - August 6, 2024 at 10:57 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - August 7, 2024 at 4:52 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - August 6, 2024 at 11:08 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Disagreeable - August 7, 2024 at 7:46 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Mister Agenda - August 7, 2024 at 3:59 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by The Grand Nudger - August 7, 2024 at 5:55 pm
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by soulcalm17 - August 8, 2024 at 4:04 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 8, 2024 at 4:12 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Paleophyte - August 8, 2024 at 4:45 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Sheldon - August 8, 2024 at 5:07 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by Silver - August 8, 2024 at 7:17 am
RE: Hello soulcalm17 - by brewer - August 8, 2024 at 5:18 pm



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