What is pleasure?

[Ahriman]

Are there really, many other reasons? That's probably a delusion....seeking pleasure drives us to act....anything else is based in fantasy, I think.

That's an important question, I think. Maybe the answer depends on how we end up defining what pleasure is. 

So let me suggest some things that we do where the pursuit of pleasure isn't obvious:

~ Some medical procedure that's entirely unpleasant but necessary to stay alive. 

~ A duty we have toward some other person, even though doing it is unpleasant. 

~ Obeying some law, like paying taxes, which we do simply to avoid getting in trouble with the law. 

If we do these, I guess we could end up with a sense of satisfaction. I am pleased that I endured the medical procedure because it will allow me to stay alive long enough to have more pleasure in the future. I am pleased that I fulfilled my duty, because that is what good people do. I am glad the government won't punish me. 

So all these things DO end up in a kind of pleasure, though it's different from what I was talking about before. It's not pleasure as an aspect of some pleasurable activity, like listening to music. But I can see that people take pleasure in the fact that they have acted correctly, put up with things in order to achieve a desirable end, etc. 

Perhaps English should be more subtle. If there were different words for satisfaction-pleasure as opposed to activity-pleasure, it would be more clear. 

Aristotle says that a good person is one who gets pleasure from doing what is good. So such a person WOULD get activity-pleasure from paying his taxes properly. (Which I don't.) 

I think that earlier I mentioned two theories of pleasure. The first is that it is an aspect of an activity, like listening to music. The second is that it is a by-product of living in the way that we ought to be living. In this second sense, we don't actively aim for pleasure, we aim to be good people. But being good also gives us pleasure as a bonus. 

Your take on things is often different from other people here -- what is your opinion on this? Do you think that absolutely everything you do is motivated by a desire for pleasure? Is there anything which gives you no pleasure, but you do it anyway? I'm curious.

Everything you posted is objectively wrong, but I'll answer your question about doing things that don't give me pleasure but I do it anyway, that would be listening to music, listening to music does not bring me pleasure at all....The only 2 ways I respond to hearing music, are getting hyped up, and experiencing pain.