Hello atheistforum

[Abracadabra]

It's a subtle difference we're talking about here, but it is an important one. Unbelief is a sin, but it isn't accurate to say you are condemned for unbelief. You are condemned for sin, of which unbelief is one. Unbelief is particularly grievous, because it slams the door on your salvation, but by definition it is a sin and not a special category of sin.

I hope you aren't planning on becoming an apologist for the Christian doctrine because you are extremely lame at it.

Your so-called "subtle difference" here is utter nonsense.

I guess I'll have to teach you about your own religion.

In Christianity a "sin" is nothing other than disobedience of God. Therefore if unbelief is a "sin" all that means is that God is demanding that people must believe in him lest he will be exceedingly cruel and hurtful toward them.

So it's a religion about a mean hateful egotistical God who will be extremely hateful and hurtful toward people for merely not believing in him.

Your "subtle apologetic argument" here hasn't changed that fact at all.

The religion is about an egotistical God who unrighteous hates people for merely not believing in him and will condemn them to eternal damnation for this very thing.

Sorry to hear that you are in denial of what the religion actually teaches.

Why do you believe we are spiritual beings, and why do you think it necessarily follows that we have always existed if so? Why couldn't we have been created? What in your experience informs you about this?

I believe that I'm an eternal spiritual being because I have always intuitively felt that this is the case. It's strictly a "intuitive belief", I can't prove it logically. In terms of logic I can only offer reasons why I feel that it is rationally plausible.

I could be wrong. I confess that to myself and to the entire world. This is why I list myself as an "Agnostic Spiritualist". I do not have irrefutable knowledge of this spiritual essence to reality. I'm just personally confident on an intuitive level that this is the true state of affairs.

In fact, while I'm confessing truths allow me to also confess the truth that I cannot honestly rationalize the God portrayed in the Hebrew fables. When I tell you that I see it as being a portrait of an utterly stupid, hateful , and overbearingly ignorant picture of God, that is the truth.

So since this is how I honestly feel would you have me lie to this God and pretend that I believe in him just in the hopes of pacifying his anxiety to hurt me for not believing in him?

What the hell kind of a God would that be? My only hope for salvation would be to lie to this God and pretend that the ancient Hebrew bull shit makes sense?

You've got to be kidding me.

Why are you so certain that no one knows (that reality is spiritual)? Wouldn't that be knowing something about it for certain?

No. It would simply be making a statement about my beliefs concerning human knowledge in general.

I also believe that I can know with absolute certainty that the biblical portrait of God cannot possibly be true (as it is described in the scriptures). To me it's obvious that it can't possibly be true (as written) because the God that it portrays would necessarily need to be a hateful cold-blooded ass. And that flies in the very face of what the God is supposed to be like. So the stories (as written) cannot possibly be true. They simply contradict themselves at every turn of the page.

If there is any spiritual truth in the biblical writings at all, it is very sparsely scattered between mostly bull shit.

I also personally believe that the rumors about the character of Jesus were sparked by the life of a Jewish Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva, but that's a whole other story.

The truth isn't what you prefer, though. You may prefer not to believe that many will end up in hell but that isn't how you evaluate the truth. The truth is what it is regardless of what you prefer. You have said that no one can know the truth, which again on its face is knowing something about it, but you have to admit that the mere fact that you have a spirit strongly suggests someone gave it to you, since you were in fact created here.

I wasn't attempting to speak about any "truth" there other than the truth that these scriptures have Jesus claiming that only few will make it into the kingdom of God, and the rest will be sent to eternal punishment.

If you believe that these scriptures correctly convey the "truth" of what Jesus supposedly taught, then you have no choice but to also acknowledge that in this religion the vast majority of people end up in hell.

That's simply what these scriptures demand. That's all.

I know quite a bit about Eastern Mysticism and I know what people mean by that in general, but I am asking what does that mean to you in particular?

Well, my spiritual philosophy is pretty deep. It would be impossible to convey it to you in posts as a practical matter. But to try to sum it up in a nutshell, I take it to mean that there exists a spiritual essence to life and we are it.

It seems pretty simple to me. The only place it gets complex is if you are going to demand a lengthy description of how I think of spirit. But truthfully even that should ultimately be quite easy. In short, spirit is unknowable. What more needs to be said?

This would be like me asking you to describe to me the true nature of the biblilcal God. Like as if you should be able to do that.

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Now let's talk about your testimony a bit. I'd like to share with you some of my impression on that.

In the OP you have stated the following:

A few years back I decided to give Christianity a try, to see if its claims were true. I answered an alter call and gave my life to Jesus Christ, confessing that I am a sinner, and pledging my life to Him

Then later you replied to me stating the following:

I wasn't seeking out God to clean up my life; I was exploring Christianity to test its truth claims.

Now let me tell you something. I was personally born and raised as a Christian, and I almost became a preacher before I realized how utterly idiotic the religion truly is. So I know quite a bit about it.

But look at what you are claiming above:

You are basically claiming that you did not go to Chrisitanity because you were seeking out God. Nor did you go because you had already believed in this God. But instead you went to Jesus Christ the Almighty as a TEST to tempt the Lord thy God to prove himself to you.

And according to you he went along with your plan.

After you had given yourself over him as a TEST to see if he was real he came into your life, fixed up all your petty problems, and filled you with joy to PROVE to you that he does indeed exist.

And now you are a passionate BELIEVER because Jesus came into your life and proved himself to you passing your TEST.

Personally I don't think that's how it's supposed work in any case.

But to each their own.

I'm glad that you got something out of your challenge to Jesus.

But you're definitely not going to sell the religion to me.

I personally don't believe that you even remotely understand what the religion is about.