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Freedom of Religion
RE: Freedom of Religion
(February 8, 2012 at 5:50 am)genkaus Wrote: That is the reason for derision towards you. You don't just confess your agnosticism, you wear it like a badge of honor.

What do you mean when you say that I wear it like a badge of "honor"?
IMHO it is honorable to own up to the truth.
So why shouldn't I consider my honesty as being worthy of honor?
At least I'm not running around proclaiming to "know" that magick is real.
I would think that you should give me credit for that much.

Quote:You seem to think that your lack of knowledge on the subject gives
you justification to believe whatever you wish regarding it.

Lack of knowledge on what subject? What specifically are you talking about?

Quote:In fact, you go even further. You claim that since you acknowledge the fact that you cannot justify your beliefs, they should somehow receive the sanction of rationality in form of respect.

Two things here:

First:

Cannot justify my beliefs? Excuse me? Justify to who?
I can justify them to myself, and that's all that's required.
I shouldn't need to have to justify them to you.
After all, if I could justify them to you then they'd become your beliefs as well.
I mean surely? If I could justify them to you why wouldn't you believe them?
I shouldn't need to have to justify my beliefs to you?
I most certainly don't demand that you justify your beliefs to me.
In fact, to be perfectly blunt about it, I don't care what you believe.
As long as you don't try to claim to speak for God and claim that God hates me
I truly couldn't care less what you believe.

Secondly:

What do you mean by "sanctioning my beliefs" by giving them respect?
No one is asking you to give my beliefs, respect.
All I ask is that you give me respect and not pass judgment on me because of my beliefs.

It's a pretty simple request I would think.
I don't judge people based on their beliefs.
I can even respect a devout Christian as long as they aren't a proselytizing zealot.
Just because I think Christianity is utterly stupid doesn't mean that I automatically think that all Christians are stupid.
I can understand how some people can justify it.
Who knows how they interpret scriptures?
Who knows how much of it they accept as verbatim?
Who knows how much they see as mere analogies and metaphors?
As long as they aren't proselytizing at me, I wouldn't even bother to ask.
And I would respect them for their beliefs.
Even though I personally feel that the doctrine itself is impossible to justify.

So I'm only requesting the same conditions for respect that I offer anyone else.



Quote:All this in face of the fact that your agnosticism itself is self-imposed and gnosticism is not only possible but quite easy. All you have to do is to examine the premises of your beliefs rationally.

Baloney.
That's your personal world view again.
Evidently you seem to think that it should be easy to see conclusions that you draw.
You are basing that entirely upon what you deem to be 'rational'.
You have accepted certain things in your world view and that's the lens through which you see the world.
And now you're basically expecting everyone else to see the world through your lens, lest you deem them to be 'irrational'.

I personally cannot rule out the possibility that reality might have a spiritual essence.

If you believe that you can, more power to you!

I can't.

For you to even think that I could is utter nonsense.
This would be like a Christian telling you that you could believe in Christianity if you really wanted to.

You're trying to tell me that I can convince myself that there cannot possibly be a spiritual essence to reality?
Just because you think that's a rational conclusion?

That's utter nonsense.

Christian - A moron who believes that an all-benevolent God can simultaneously be a hateful jealous male-chauvinistic pig.
Wiccan - The epitome of cerebral evolution having mastered the magical powers of the universe and is in eternal harmony with the mind of God.
Atheist - An ill-defined term that means something different to everyone who uses it.
~~~~~
Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.
Clearly Jesus (a fictitious character or otherwise) will forgive people if they merely know not what they do
For the Bible Tells us so!
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Freedom of Religion - by rubikscube - January 9, 2012 at 7:35 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Forsaken - January 9, 2012 at 7:38 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by padraic - January 9, 2012 at 7:43 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Violet - February 13, 2012 at 3:25 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Blam! - January 9, 2012 at 7:44 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by rubikscube - January 9, 2012 at 7:50 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Anomalocaris - January 9, 2012 at 8:11 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by rubikscube - January 10, 2012 at 5:16 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by kılıç_mehmet - January 10, 2012 at 10:16 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by houseofcantor - January 11, 2012 at 12:44 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Doubting Thomas - January 11, 2012 at 7:07 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Erinome - January 12, 2012 at 12:35 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Epimethean - January 12, 2012 at 1:10 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Doubting Thomas - January 12, 2012 at 2:28 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Epimethean - January 12, 2012 at 11:53 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by houseofcantor - January 13, 2012 at 2:49 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - January 13, 2012 at 9:12 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Perhaps - January 17, 2012 at 12:33 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by houseofcantor - January 17, 2012 at 8:59 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Nebuloso - January 27, 2012 at 6:54 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by tackattack - January 27, 2012 at 7:16 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Nebuloso - January 27, 2012 at 2:27 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Mitja - January 27, 2012 at 5:26 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by tackattack - January 28, 2012 at 6:52 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by reverendjeremiah - January 31, 2012 at 4:09 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by padraic - January 28, 2012 at 7:05 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by CliveStaples - January 30, 2012 at 10:11 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - January 30, 2012 at 10:20 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Epimethean - January 30, 2012 at 10:21 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Mitja - January 31, 2012 at 3:18 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by reverendjeremiah - January 31, 2012 at 4:21 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by LastPoet - January 31, 2012 at 3:45 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - January 31, 2012 at 4:14 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Doubting Thomas - January 31, 2012 at 4:21 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - January 31, 2012 at 4:42 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Doubting Thomas - January 31, 2012 at 4:58 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Faith No More - January 31, 2012 at 4:59 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - January 31, 2012 at 5:29 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by padraic - January 31, 2012 at 6:04 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by KichigaiNeko - January 31, 2012 at 6:13 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Mitja - February 1, 2012 at 12:53 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 1, 2012 at 1:30 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Mitja - February 1, 2012 at 1:55 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 1, 2012 at 2:37 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Faith No More - February 1, 2012 at 6:01 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by tackattack - February 1, 2012 at 5:50 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 1, 2012 at 1:10 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Mister Agenda - February 1, 2012 at 1:03 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Mitja - February 1, 2012 at 1:11 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Mister Agenda - February 1, 2012 at 1:21 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Mitja - February 1, 2012 at 1:26 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Mister Agenda - February 2, 2012 at 1:18 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Doubting Thomas - February 1, 2012 at 6:07 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by tackattack - February 2, 2012 at 6:20 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 2, 2012 at 5:01 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Epimethean - February 2, 2012 at 10:33 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 2, 2012 at 10:34 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Epimethean - February 2, 2012 at 10:38 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 2, 2012 at 6:50 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 2, 2012 at 8:44 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Michelle_Patton - February 2, 2012 at 7:05 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 2, 2012 at 10:01 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 3, 2012 at 3:44 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by tackattack - February 3, 2012 at 6:05 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 3, 2012 at 7:42 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Epimethean - February 3, 2012 at 8:49 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 3, 2012 at 9:21 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 3, 2012 at 9:05 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by CliveStaples - February 3, 2012 at 9:08 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 3, 2012 at 9:39 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 3, 2012 at 1:43 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Epimethean - February 4, 2012 at 3:12 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by KichigaiNeko - February 4, 2012 at 3:15 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 4, 2012 at 2:10 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by genkaus - February 4, 2012 at 4:52 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 5, 2012 at 1:19 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by genkaus - February 5, 2012 at 2:37 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 5, 2012 at 4:33 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by genkaus - February 5, 2012 at 6:40 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 5, 2012 at 7:52 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by genkaus - February 5, 2012 at 10:31 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 6, 2012 at 12:16 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by genkaus - February 6, 2012 at 2:22 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 6, 2012 at 2:30 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by genkaus - February 7, 2012 at 10:32 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by KichigaiNeko - February 8, 2012 at 2:35 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 8, 2012 at 3:08 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by genkaus - February 8, 2012 at 3:25 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by genkaus - February 8, 2012 at 3:00 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Epimethean - February 4, 2012 at 3:16 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by KichigaiNeko - February 4, 2012 at 3:26 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Epimethean - February 4, 2012 at 4:38 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Epimethean - February 4, 2012 at 4:56 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by genkaus - February 4, 2012 at 5:02 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by tackattack - February 5, 2012 at 3:24 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Epimethean - February 6, 2012 at 9:21 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Rusko - February 6, 2012 at 9:26 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by RW_9 - February 6, 2012 at 2:47 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Cosmic Ape - February 6, 2012 at 9:38 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Epimethean - February 7, 2012 at 9:14 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 8, 2012 at 1:08 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by genkaus - February 8, 2012 at 3:19 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 8, 2012 at 4:14 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by genkaus - February 8, 2012 at 8:49 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 8, 2012 at 2:08 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 8, 2012 at 2:53 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by tackattack - February 8, 2012 at 2:55 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by KichigaiNeko - February 8, 2012 at 2:57 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by KichigaiNeko - February 8, 2012 at 3:02 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 8, 2012 at 3:04 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by KichigaiNeko - February 8, 2012 at 3:07 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 8, 2012 at 3:41 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by genkaus - February 8, 2012 at 5:50 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 8, 2012 at 7:48 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by tackattack - February 8, 2012 at 8:12 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by genkaus - February 8, 2012 at 9:53 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 8, 2012 at 3:49 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by genkaus - February 8, 2012 at 5:05 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 8, 2012 at 7:38 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by genkaus - February 9, 2012 at 6:28 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 9, 2012 at 7:10 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by genkaus - February 10, 2012 at 6:44 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 10, 2012 at 7:49 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by genkaus - February 10, 2012 at 9:01 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 10, 2012 at 9:35 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by genkaus - February 10, 2012 at 10:25 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 10, 2012 at 11:11 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by genkaus - February 11, 2012 at 10:10 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 11, 2012 at 10:27 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by genkaus - February 11, 2012 at 10:57 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 11, 2012 at 11:51 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by genkaus - February 12, 2012 at 6:54 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 12, 2012 at 2:50 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by genkaus - February 13, 2012 at 10:21 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 8, 2012 at 3:11 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 8, 2012 at 3:22 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by KichigaiNeko - February 8, 2012 at 3:31 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 8, 2012 at 3:51 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 8, 2012 at 4:17 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 8, 2012 at 4:52 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by tackattack - February 8, 2012 at 7:29 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 8, 2012 at 9:23 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by tackattack - February 9, 2012 at 6:07 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 8, 2012 at 7:10 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Epimethean - February 8, 2012 at 9:40 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 8, 2012 at 9:48 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Epimethean - February 8, 2012 at 9:51 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by padraic - February 8, 2012 at 10:04 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 8, 2012 at 10:11 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 9, 2012 at 12:22 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Epimethean - February 9, 2012 at 12:59 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 9, 2012 at 1:43 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Epimethean - February 9, 2012 at 2:33 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 9, 2012 at 3:12 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 9, 2012 at 3:08 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 9, 2012 at 3:17 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Epimethean - February 9, 2012 at 3:15 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 9, 2012 at 3:16 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Epimethean - February 9, 2012 at 3:18 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 9, 2012 at 3:18 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 9, 2012 at 11:13 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by genkaus - February 9, 2012 at 11:25 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 9, 2012 at 11:31 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by genkaus - February 9, 2012 at 3:13 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 9, 2012 at 3:17 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by genkaus - February 9, 2012 at 4:11 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 9, 2012 at 7:43 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Cosmic Ape - February 9, 2012 at 9:10 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 9, 2012 at 9:46 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Cosmic Ape - February 9, 2012 at 11:20 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 9, 2012 at 11:57 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Cosmic Ape - February 10, 2012 at 9:30 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 9, 2012 at 5:23 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 9, 2012 at 7:26 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 9, 2012 at 7:45 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 9, 2012 at 9:53 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 9, 2012 at 10:30 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 9, 2012 at 10:31 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Epimethean - February 9, 2012 at 10:38 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 9, 2012 at 10:55 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 10, 2012 at 2:11 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 10, 2012 at 3:02 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 10, 2012 at 3:09 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 10, 2012 at 4:40 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Epimethean - February 10, 2012 at 8:58 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 10, 2012 at 11:01 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 10, 2012 at 6:08 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 10, 2012 at 7:29 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 12, 2012 at 12:36 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 12, 2012 at 2:52 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Epimethean - February 13, 2012 at 10:26 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 13, 2012 at 11:30 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Epimethean - February 13, 2012 at 11:42 am
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 13, 2012 at 12:41 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Cosmic Ape - February 13, 2012 at 2:48 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by The Grand Nudger - February 13, 2012 at 12:22 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by downbeatplumb - February 13, 2012 at 2:57 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Abracadabra - February 13, 2012 at 4:14 pm
RE: Freedom of Religion - by Epimethean - February 13, 2012 at 8:08 pm

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