(August 4, 2009 at 10:46 am)Jon Paul Wrote:(August 4, 2009 at 10:34 am)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: Um ... if something has ALWAYS existed then it can't have been created ... doh!!!!And why is that the case, in your little metaphysical synthesis, if I might ask?
metaphysics is bollocks ... I'm using straight logic! If something has always existed then it has no beginning, no end and therefore cannot have been created.
(August 4, 2009 at 10:46 am)Jon Paul Wrote: In my view of the universe, it has indeed always existed in all time, and it is certainly created - because everything which exists apart from God is created by God.
Your view is insane .. you offer no evidence for your god yet you claim it is real! At least the idea of a multiverse is viewed as a realistic possibility by scientists.
(August 4, 2009 at 10:46 am)Jon Paul Wrote: Whether the subject exists in time, and in all time, or not, makes no difference to whether the subject is created or not. For instance, the universe is the totality of temporal reality - therefore it has existed in all times. A small part of the universe, like me, is not the totality of spatial or temporal reality, and therefore I do not exist in all time. To the contrary example, angels are wholly apart from that spatiotemporal reality, but again, that is something which makes no difference to their createdness.
I repeat I am talking about the multiverse ... it is beyond time, beyond space! Your angels and gods are just fairy tales.
Kyu
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Where those who are hacked off with the stupidity of irrational belief can vent their feelings!
Come over to the dark side, we have cookies!
Kyuuketsuki, AngryAtheism Owner & Administrator