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Freewill
#35
RE: Freewill
(March 25, 2012 at 4:41 pm)Drich Wrote: The Serpent/Devil only presented the option. One can not have true choice without options.

Then God also gave his "gift" of free will to the devil, and lacked the foresight to see what havoc he would wreak.

(March 25, 2012 at 4:41 pm)Drich Wrote: That said God does not send us there. we elect to go there of our own accord. God only enforces the decision we make in this life.

Its not a free choice however. If you are born in a country where christianity may not even be known, or is not the prevalent faith, God understands that these people are born to hell and ignorance, with no option to choose otherwise. Romans 10:14 makes the accusation, which is not properly answered. The statement the message went to the ends of the earth is demonstrably inaccurate.
It occurs to me that it becomes an evil act to preach to the ignorant, as you condemn them to the choice you claim they have.
Its a famous joke, the christian says "You will go to hell if you do not accept Jesus Christ,"
The unbeliever says; "But I didn't know, would he still send me to hell"
The christian says; "No, he does not hold ignorance against you"
The unbeliever says: "Then what the HELL did you tell me for!"

The fact remains, that Gods morality is decidedly shaky.

(March 25, 2012 at 4:41 pm)Drich Wrote: He also allowed Satan to inform Adam and Eve of this Choice and frame it in such away to allow them to believe it was a choice without consequence.

What a shit. He allows Satan into the garden, allows him to tempt adam and eve, and then punishes the Snake for the crime he wanted him to commit in the first place.

Secondly, this always confused me, but you get a A+ on apologetic bullshit, so out of interest, how did God not know this happened, and how did he not know where Adam was when he was hiding.
Omniscience failure? He should check the batteries.

(March 25, 2012 at 4:41 pm)Drich Wrote: Let's say for instance my theory is correct and Adam and Eve lived in the Garden with God a few hundred billion years.

You might want to read up on the age of the universe. Just sayin'. Doesn't change the point, but if you want to invoke science to back up your theories, it wouldn't hurt to know some.

(March 25, 2012 at 4:41 pm)Drich Wrote: then one day someone says it will be fine and assures them that God was mistaken, and tells them to go head and check it out. what would you do?

God must have known this would happen then. This has all the hallmarks of God having a plan for this to happen, which makes him even more immoral considering the torture he inflicts based upon this decision which he is party to coercion.

(March 25, 2012 at 4:41 pm)Drich Wrote: Every sentient being created in the presents of God has this dilemma at some point or another in eternity past. they are tempted by the unknown enticed by the sp....

Sorry, you're getting into realms of irrelevance.

Every sentient being (including angels of course, do you agree?) has this gift of free will. I need to confirm your insistence on this point.

The problem we have here in all of this, is the premise that the bible is an actual authority. Its simply private conviction that you believe it is, which is fine, I'm not going to poke too hard on that particular tender spot.

Now, the premise of this thread is that people have the wrong idea about free will. It does not absolve God of the contradiction of omniscience in this case.
In short; Omniscience must be redefined to ensure God cannot see all time, and God cannot know what choices we will make. The voluntary option here, means that there must be doubt at some point whether the choice will go one way or another.

I'm sure you have an answer for that, and we can move on to whether God has free will, which is always fun. Smile
Self-authenticating private evidence is useless, because it is indistinguishable from the illusion of it. ― Kel, Kelosophy Blog

If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic.
― Tim Minchin, Storm
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Messages In This Thread
Freewill - by Christian - March 24, 2012 at 9:17 pm
RE: Freewill - by Nine - March 24, 2012 at 9:19 pm
RE: Freewill - by R-e-n-n-a-t - March 24, 2012 at 9:28 pm
RE: Freewill - by Erinome - March 24, 2012 at 9:35 pm
RE: Freewill - by Paul the Human - March 24, 2012 at 10:31 pm
RE: Freewill - by Phil - March 24, 2012 at 10:33 pm
RE: Freewill - by Welsh cake - March 24, 2012 at 11:07 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 24, 2012 at 11:10 pm
RE: Freewill - by Minimalist - March 24, 2012 at 11:20 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 24, 2012 at 11:24 pm
RE: Freewill - by JohnDG - March 24, 2012 at 11:44 pm
RE: Freewill - by Minimalist - March 24, 2012 at 11:48 pm
RE: Freewill - by Phil - March 25, 2012 at 12:03 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 25, 2012 at 12:57 am
RE: Freewill - by Cyberman - March 25, 2012 at 12:10 am
RE: Freewill - by Minimalist - March 25, 2012 at 1:46 am
RE: Freewill - by Christian - March 25, 2012 at 3:37 am
RE: Freewill - by Phil - March 25, 2012 at 3:42 am
RE: Freewill - by Napoléon - March 25, 2012 at 8:55 am
RE: Freewill - by Darwinian - March 25, 2012 at 3:38 am
RE: Freewill - by Christian - March 25, 2012 at 3:42 am
RE: Freewill - by The Grand Nudger - March 25, 2012 at 9:12 am
RE: Freewill - by Drich - March 25, 2012 at 10:43 am
RE: Freewill - by Napoléon - March 25, 2012 at 1:13 pm
RE: Freewill - by Drich - March 25, 2012 at 2:13 pm
RE: Freewill - by Nine - March 25, 2012 at 2:19 pm
RE: Freewill - by Tobie - March 25, 2012 at 2:21 pm
RE: Freewill - by Napoléon - March 25, 2012 at 2:39 pm
RE: Freewill - by Minimalist - March 25, 2012 at 8:41 pm
RE: Freewill - by Minimalist - March 25, 2012 at 1:50 pm
RE: Freewill - by Norfolk And Chance - March 25, 2012 at 2:16 pm
RE: Freewill - by Drich - March 25, 2012 at 4:41 pm
RE: Freewill - by NoMoreFaith - March 25, 2012 at 8:11 pm
RE: Freewill - by Drich - March 25, 2012 at 11:20 pm
RE: Freewill - by Norfolk And Chance - March 26, 2012 at 4:43 am
RE: Freewill - by Phil - March 26, 2012 at 4:43 am
RE: Freewill - by NoMoreFaith - March 26, 2012 at 6:07 am
RE: Freewill - by Drich - March 26, 2012 at 6:33 pm
RE: Freewill - by Nine - March 25, 2012 at 2:22 pm
RE: Freewill - by Tobie - March 25, 2012 at 2:26 pm
RE: Freewill - by Nine - March 25, 2012 at 2:32 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 25, 2012 at 9:25 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 26, 2012 at 1:57 am
RE: Freewill - by Drich - March 26, 2012 at 5:49 pm
RE: Freewill - by Phil - March 29, 2012 at 6:45 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 26, 2012 at 4:34 am
RE: Freewill - by genkaus - March 26, 2012 at 5:37 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 26, 2012 at 5:42 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - March 26, 2012 at 5:06 am
RE: Freewill - by Erinome - March 26, 2012 at 5:28 am
RE: Freewill - by Christian - March 26, 2012 at 5:29 am
RE: Freewill - by Erinome - March 26, 2012 at 5:42 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 26, 2012 at 5:38 am
RE: Freewill - by Christian - March 26, 2012 at 5:45 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 26, 2012 at 5:47 am
RE: Freewill - by Christian - March 26, 2012 at 5:53 am
RE: Freewill - by genkaus - March 26, 2012 at 5:56 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 26, 2012 at 5:59 am
RE: Freewill - by Christian - March 26, 2012 at 6:02 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 26, 2012 at 6:06 am
RE: Freewill - by Phil - March 26, 2012 at 6:07 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - March 27, 2012 at 1:23 am
RE: Freewill - by Phil - March 26, 2012 at 5:51 am
RE: Freewill - by KichigaiNeko - March 26, 2012 at 5:54 am
RE: Freewill - by KichigaiNeko - March 26, 2012 at 5:58 am
RE: Freewill - by KichigaiNeko - March 26, 2012 at 6:11 am
RE: Freewill - by Erinome - March 26, 2012 at 6:13 am
RE: Freewill - by fr0d0 - March 26, 2012 at 6:06 pm
RE: Freewill - by Cyberman - March 26, 2012 at 3:08 pm
RE: Freewill - by WhatIfGodWasJustAMyth - March 26, 2012 at 6:24 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 27, 2012 at 3:28 am
RE: Freewill - by Christian - March 27, 2012 at 4:08 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 27, 2012 at 4:12 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - March 27, 2012 at 6:14 pm
RE: Freewill - by fr0d0 - March 28, 2012 at 2:35 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 27, 2012 at 8:09 pm
RE: Freewill - by Cinjin - March 27, 2012 at 8:45 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 27, 2012 at 9:35 pm
RE: Freewill - by Cinjin - March 27, 2012 at 11:19 pm
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - March 28, 2012 at 2:24 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 28, 2012 at 2:45 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - March 28, 2012 at 3:03 am
RE: Freewill - by Christian - March 28, 2012 at 4:38 am
RE: Freewill - by genkaus - March 28, 2012 at 4:42 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - March 29, 2012 at 4:00 am
RE: Freewill - by genkaus - March 29, 2012 at 4:35 am
RE: Freewill - by Norfolk And Chance - March 29, 2012 at 5:51 am
RE: Freewill - by Ace Otana - March 28, 2012 at 11:26 am
RE: Freewill - by Norfolk And Chance - March 28, 2012 at 5:26 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 28, 2012 at 5:09 am
RE: Freewill - by Cinjin - March 28, 2012 at 10:11 am
RE: Freewill - by KichigaiNeko - March 27, 2012 at 9:55 pm
RE: Freewill - by Sciwoman - March 28, 2012 at 5:05 am
RE: Freewill - by Sciwoman - March 29, 2012 at 4:42 am
RE: Freewill - by The Grand Nudger - March 28, 2012 at 1:03 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 28, 2012 at 9:52 pm
Re: Freewill - by fr0d0 - March 29, 2012 at 2:45 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 29, 2012 at 4:51 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - March 29, 2012 at 5:09 pm
RE: Freewill - by Ace Otana - March 29, 2012 at 5:53 pm
RE: Freewill - by genkaus - March 30, 2012 at 3:03 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - March 30, 2012 at 3:40 am
RE: Freewill - by Ace Otana - March 30, 2012 at 4:52 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - March 30, 2012 at 1:54 pm
RE: Freewill - by Ace Otana - March 30, 2012 at 2:20 pm
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - April 1, 2012 at 2:53 am
RE: Freewill - by Ace Otana - April 1, 2012 at 11:32 am
RE: Freewill - by Whateverist - March 29, 2012 at 7:43 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 29, 2012 at 8:24 pm
RE: Freewill - by WhatIfGodWasJustAMyth - March 29, 2012 at 8:34 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 30, 2012 at 4:25 am
RE: Freewill - by Faith No More - March 30, 2012 at 2:35 pm
RE: Freewill - by Nine - March 30, 2012 at 2:36 pm
RE: Freewill - by Neo-Scholastic - March 30, 2012 at 3:19 pm
RE: Freewill - by genkaus - March 30, 2012 at 4:04 pm
RE: Freewill - by Undeceived - March 31, 2012 at 2:01 am
RE: Freewill - by Phil - March 31, 2012 at 2:24 am
RE: Freewill - by genkaus - March 31, 2012 at 5:50 am
RE: Freewill - by Neo-Scholastic - March 31, 2012 at 3:25 pm
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - April 1, 2012 at 2:39 am
RE: Freewill - by Sciwoman - March 30, 2012 at 7:50 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 30, 2012 at 8:38 pm
RE: Freewill - by Neo-Scholastic - March 30, 2012 at 8:49 pm
RE: Freewill - by Phil - March 31, 2012 at 12:43 am
RE: Freewill - by Ace Otana - March 31, 2012 at 5:17 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 31, 2012 at 2:38 am
RE: Freewill - by KichigaiNeko - March 31, 2012 at 2:53 am
RE: Freewill - by KichigaiNeko - March 31, 2012 at 5:26 am
RE: Freewill - by KichigaiNeko - March 31, 2012 at 5:55 am
RE: Freewill - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2012 at 11:35 am
RE: Freewill - by Minimalist - April 1, 2012 at 2:49 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - April 1, 2012 at 11:29 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - April 2, 2012 at 1:34 am
RE: Freewill - by Forsaken - April 2, 2012 at 4:48 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - April 2, 2012 at 2:38 pm
RE: Freewill - by Phil - April 2, 2012 at 2:48 pm
RE: Freewill - by KichigaiNeko - April 2, 2012 at 6:48 am
RE: Freewill - by Napoléon - April 2, 2012 at 6:58 am
RE: Freewill - by KichigaiNeko - April 2, 2012 at 7:04 am
Freewill - by Thomas Kelly - April 12, 2012 at 9:11 pm
RE: Freewill - by TheJackel - April 12, 2012 at 9:15 pm
RE: Freewill - by Thomas Kelly - April 12, 2012 at 9:21 pm
RE: Freewill - by TheJackel - April 12, 2012 at 11:09 pm
RE: Freewill - by Thomas Kelly - April 12, 2012 at 11:15 pm
RE: Freewill - by TheJackel - April 13, 2012 at 12:07 am
RE: Freewill - by Thomas Kelly - April 13, 2012 at 12:50 am
RE: Freewill - by Reforged - April 13, 2012 at 1:12 am
RE: Freewill - by TheJackel - April 13, 2012 at 1:22 am
RE: Freewill - by Thomas Kelly - April 13, 2012 at 1:27 am
RE: Freewill - by Reforged - April 13, 2012 at 2:47 am
RE: Freewill - by TheJackel - April 13, 2012 at 3:37 am
RE: Freewill - by Drich - April 13, 2012 at 1:05 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - April 13, 2012 at 6:20 pm
RE: Freewill - by genkaus - April 13, 2012 at 7:24 pm
RE: Freewill - by Reforged - April 14, 2012 at 6:33 pm
RE: Freewill - by Norfolk And Chance - April 13, 2012 at 8:55 pm
RE: Freewill - by Thomas Kelly - April 14, 2012 at 4:47 am
RE: Freewill - by TheJackel - April 14, 2012 at 5:59 am
RE: Freewill - by Thomas Kelly - April 14, 2012 at 9:54 am
RE: Freewill - by TheJackel - April 14, 2012 at 1:40 am
RE: Freewill - by Drich - April 12, 2012 at 11:56 pm
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - April 12, 2012 at 11:58 pm
RE: Freewill - by Reforged - April 13, 2012 at 12:02 am
RE: Freewill - by Faith No More - April 13, 2012 at 7:27 am
RE: Freewill - by Paul the Human - April 14, 2012 at 10:03 am
RE: Freewill - by Cyberman - April 14, 2012 at 10:21 am
RE: Freewill - by Tobie - April 14, 2012 at 11:39 am
RE: Freewill - by Thomas Kelly - April 14, 2012 at 12:09 pm
RE: Freewill - by TheJackel - April 14, 2012 at 2:04 pm
RE: Freewill - by Thomas Kelly - April 14, 2012 at 3:08 pm
RE: Freewill - by Welsh cake - April 14, 2012 at 12:26 pm
RE: Freewill - by No God No Problem - April 14, 2012 at 1:26 pm

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