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God formally disproven
#4
RE: God formally disproven
(March 26, 2012 at 10:32 am)FallentoReason Wrote: One of the properties of God is that he is omnibenevolent. This directly implies certain things about the world he would create. These are the implications:

1. God is omnibenevolent.
Therefore,

Christianity's assertion regarding god. One can assert anything concerning the nature of god because it is all neccesarily based upon pure assertion!


(March 26, 2012 at 10:32 am)FallentoReason Wrote: 2. God must create the best world, otherwise he is not omnibenevolent.

Therefore,



(March 26, 2012 at 10:32 am)FallentoReason Wrote: 3. The best world must be one where the creatures can freely choose to only do good actions.

Otherwise,

This is where they will get you. Arguing free will for the Christians entails choice between good and evil. If one is incapable of choosing evil, then one's will is not free. They would be caused by some part of their nature to choose good, it would not be "willed".


(March 26, 2012 at 10:32 am)FallentoReason Wrote: 4. God is not omnibenevolent because it is impossible for God to not want to create the best world.

Therefore,

(March 26, 2012 at 10:32 am)FallentoReason Wrote: 5. If God is necessarily omnibenevolent then evil cannot exist.

No, he would also need qualities of omnipotence and omniscience for this premise to be valid. Once again assertions based upon a Christian "understanding" of god.

(March 26, 2012 at 10:32 am)FallentoReason Wrote: Conclusion:
- Evil exists meaning God is not omnibenevolent. Therefore God does not exist.

Couple of errors here. The only conclusion one could draw would be that god is not omnibenevolent. God could still exist and simply not be omnibenevolent. Gods existence does not have his omnibenevolence as a precondition.

Christians often counteract this problem by appealing to the nature of free will coupled with the classic "anything god wills is good even if we don't understand it" argument. The idea being the only "good" is obedience to god's will and that all evil is either a byproduct of human free will or has some purpose we with our limited human understanding cannot comprehend. Job being the archetype.

This is essentially the "problem of evil" it is one of the few "problems" that most Christians will admit to. I think they do so because it doesn't argue directly against god's existence and is about as simple an argument one can get. Candide by Voltaire really tore this argument apart for me when I first read it. Its a short read and an interesting study in the nature of evil versus god's "divine plan".

(March 26, 2012 at 10:32 am)FallentoReason Wrote: EDIT: I'm half asleep so maybe my reasoning has a few holes here and there. Feedback on how to improve my argument is more than welcome. Also, feedback on why I'm completely wrong is more than welcome.

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." -Friedrich Nietzsche

"All thinking men are atheists." -Ernest Hemmingway

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." -Voltaire
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Messages In This Thread
God formally disproven - by FallentoReason - March 26, 2012 at 10:32 am
RE: God formally disproven - by genkaus - March 26, 2012 at 10:45 am
RE: God formally disproven - by FallentoReason - March 26, 2012 at 10:53 am
RE: God formally disproven - by mediamogul - March 26, 2012 at 10:58 am
RE: God formally disproven - by Neo-Scholastic - March 26, 2012 at 11:00 am
RE: God formally disproven - by NoMoreFaith - March 26, 2012 at 11:19 am
RE: God formally disproven - by Xavier - March 26, 2012 at 11:59 am
RE: God formally disproven - by Statler Waldorf - March 28, 2012 at 5:24 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by oxymoron - March 28, 2012 at 5:33 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by Neo-Scholastic - March 28, 2012 at 8:51 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by mediamogul - March 28, 2012 at 10:28 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by The Grand Nudger - March 26, 2012 at 3:22 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by Neo-Scholastic - March 26, 2012 at 5:32 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by Rhizomorph13 - March 26, 2012 at 3:52 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by Minimalist - March 26, 2012 at 4:04 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by Grundy - March 26, 2012 at 5:07 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by FallentoReason - March 27, 2012 at 12:59 am
RE: God formally disproven - by MysticKnight - March 27, 2012 at 1:42 am
RE: God formally disproven - by FallentoReason - March 26, 2012 at 11:10 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by Neo-Scholastic - March 26, 2012 at 11:17 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2012 at 11:26 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by The Grand Nudger - March 26, 2012 at 11:50 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by mediamogul - March 27, 2012 at 12:40 am
RE: God formally disproven - by Neo-Scholastic - March 27, 2012 at 8:47 am
RE: God formally disproven - by The Grand Nudger - March 27, 2012 at 12:54 am
Re: RE: God formally disproven - by fr0d0 - March 27, 2012 at 1:50 am
RE: God formally disproven - by FallentoReason - March 27, 2012 at 2:28 am
RE: God formally disproven - by Godschild - March 27, 2012 at 2:33 am
RE: God formally disproven - by genkaus - March 27, 2012 at 3:08 am
RE: God formally disproven - by FallentoReason - March 27, 2012 at 2:55 am
RE: God formally disproven - by Godschild - March 27, 2012 at 4:32 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by Forsaken - March 27, 2012 at 4:39 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by FallentoReason - March 27, 2012 at 3:16 am
RE: God formally disproven - by Christian - March 27, 2012 at 5:35 am
RE: God formally disproven - by genkaus - March 27, 2012 at 6:23 am
RE: God formally disproven - by FallentoReason - March 27, 2012 at 6:39 am
RE: God formally disproven - by KichigaiNeko - March 27, 2012 at 6:24 am
RE: God formally disproven - by KichigaiNeko - March 27, 2012 at 7:36 am
RE: God formally disproven - by The Grand Nudger - March 27, 2012 at 8:54 am
RE: God formally disproven - by Neo-Scholastic - March 27, 2012 at 9:22 am
RE: God formally disproven - by The Grand Nudger - March 27, 2012 at 9:30 am
RE: God formally disproven - by FallentoReason - March 27, 2012 at 9:42 am
RE: God formally disproven - by Neo-Scholastic - March 27, 2012 at 10:21 am
RE: God formally disproven - by FallentoReason - March 27, 2012 at 10:41 am
RE: God formally disproven - by Neo-Scholastic - March 27, 2012 at 10:50 am
RE: God formally disproven - by FallentoReason - March 27, 2012 at 11:21 am
RE: God formally disproven - by Nine - March 27, 2012 at 11:45 am
RE: God formally disproven - by genkaus - March 27, 2012 at 12:07 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by Neo-Scholastic - March 27, 2012 at 12:38 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by NoMoreFaith - March 27, 2012 at 10:56 am
RE: God formally disproven - by mediamogul - March 27, 2012 at 4:48 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by The Grand Nudger - March 27, 2012 at 1:23 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by genkaus - March 27, 2012 at 2:02 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by Mister Agenda - March 27, 2012 at 2:20 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by The Grand Nudger - March 27, 2012 at 2:22 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by genkaus - March 27, 2012 at 2:41 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by The Grand Nudger - March 27, 2012 at 2:42 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by genkaus - March 27, 2012 at 3:27 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by LastPoet - March 27, 2012 at 2:48 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by The Grand Nudger - March 27, 2012 at 4:08 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by Neo-Scholastic - March 27, 2012 at 4:22 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by genkaus - March 27, 2012 at 4:28 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by The Grand Nudger - March 27, 2012 at 4:30 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by genkaus - March 27, 2012 at 4:42 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by The Grand Nudger - March 27, 2012 at 4:44 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by The Grand Nudger - March 27, 2012 at 4:59 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by Neo-Scholastic - March 27, 2012 at 6:05 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by FallentoReason - March 27, 2012 at 7:41 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by Neo-Scholastic - March 27, 2012 at 10:25 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by The Grand Nudger - March 28, 2012 at 12:17 am
RE: God formally disproven - by NoMoreFaith - March 28, 2012 at 5:10 am
RE: God formally disproven - by mediamogul - March 28, 2012 at 11:10 am
RE: God formally disproven - by NoMoreFaith - March 28, 2012 at 11:22 am
RE: God formally disproven - by mediamogul - March 28, 2012 at 11:28 am
RE: God formally disproven - by NoMoreFaith - March 28, 2012 at 11:40 am
RE: God formally disproven - by mediamogul - March 28, 2012 at 1:14 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by Neo-Scholastic - March 28, 2012 at 1:42 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by genkaus - March 28, 2012 at 2:52 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by Rhizomorph13 - March 28, 2012 at 10:42 am
RE: God formally disproven - by Neo-Scholastic - March 28, 2012 at 4:42 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by oxymoron - March 28, 2012 at 5:06 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by Statler Waldorf - March 28, 2012 at 5:47 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by oxymoron - March 28, 2012 at 6:09 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by Statler Waldorf - March 28, 2012 at 6:29 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by oxymoron - March 29, 2012 at 4:51 am
RE: God formally disproven - by The Grand Nudger - March 28, 2012 at 6:34 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by Statler Waldorf - March 28, 2012 at 6:57 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by The Grand Nudger - March 28, 2012 at 7:27 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by FallentoReason - March 28, 2012 at 10:43 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by Neo-Scholastic - March 28, 2012 at 11:41 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by The Grand Nudger - March 28, 2012 at 11:59 pm
RE: God formally disproven - by FallentoReason - March 29, 2012 at 4:40 am

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