(March 28, 2012 at 11:40 am)NoMoreFaith Wrote:(March 28, 2012 at 11:28 am)mediamogul Wrote: I don't disagree. My disagreement with the "problem of evil" argument is that is does not demonstrate gods nonexistence. At best it demonstrates a logical contradiction when one claims god posseses qualities of omipotence, omniscience, and omnibenevolence. God cannot be all powerful and have something exist against his will. The argument is that sin exists against gods will therefore god is either not omnipotent or not omnibenevolent.
True, but I think there is a mistaken belief that a single argument can disprove Gods existence given the wide range of attributes given to him.
The only way to do so is counter the individual attributes that make up the whole, the basis for God.
God is not disprovable, but omnipotence, omniscience, omnibenevolence, and omnipresence can be logically criticised.
Using the example that made me laugh from Douglas Gasking, and referenced in the God Delusion as an example of the value laden assumptions of the ontological argument;
As soon as we attribute merits that cannot be clearly defined, or beyond measure, arguments just get silly.
- The creation of the world is the most marvellous achievement imaginable.
- The merit of an achievement is the product of (a) its intrinsic quality, and (b) the ability of its creator.
- The greater the disability (or handicap) of the creator, the more impressive the achievement.
- Therefore if we suppose that the universe is the product of an existent creator we can conceive a greater being—namely, one who created everything while not existing.
- An existing God therefore would not be a being greater than which a greater cannot be conceived because an even more formidable and incredible creator would be a God which did not exist.
- Ergo:
God does not exist.
One of my fellow philosophy students described the ontological argument as one that made you "want to eat your face". It is by far the least convincing argument for the existence of god. Its basically a word game. Hume destroyed it pretty handily in his own time by disrupting the idea of perfection as a central premise. Conceiving of something is not the same as it existing and making existence a neccessary condition of perfection doesn't break this law.
Im working through the God Delusion now. I find the argument that religion is a set of memes that have been selected for against other memes in a meme pool interesting.
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." -Friedrich Nietzsche
"All thinking men are atheists." -Ernest Hemmingway
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." -Voltaire
"All thinking men are atheists." -Ernest Hemmingway
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." -Voltaire