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Freewill
RE: Freewill
(March 30, 2012 at 3:19 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Sacrificial atonement makes two wrongs a right. The so-called sin of Adam corrected by the brutal injustice of the Passion now absolves the guilty of their crimes? It disregards the need for sinners to repent and take actions leading to their regeneration. Christ saves us by the example of His life, not through the manner of his death.

It's not the injustice the Romans gave that saves us, it's Jesus' love poured out on the cross. The point is that Jesus died when he did not deserve death--he never sinned, and he faces the penalty anyway. Being God, he was also able to take all our sins on himself. Jesus asked the Father, "Why have you forsaken me?" implying that even God the Father could not look upon his Son as he bore the sins of the world. Today, sinners do need to repent in order to receive the sacrifice Jesus already gave. The Bible is one great love story. If God just gave us salvation without our asking what would either get out of the situation? A father is not going to let his daughter eat her dinner until she at least promises to try not to stab her brother with the fork again. That's the first part of repentance--abiding by the law. The second is love. Which is better--to do the right thing out of fear of punishment or out of love for whom you're doing it? A parent would know the answer to this also. So these two are all Jesus wants in return for a salvation we ourselves could never earn. But Christianity isn't incentive-oriented. It's love-oriented, meaning all my attempts to convince you to repent for eternal life will go nowhere--because, ultimately, you must love Jesus first. Christianity is not about what you get, it's a state of mind. You don't find Jesus, he finds you.

Quote:Jesus was not, as you believe, a God/Man from birth, but someone who through the course of his life fully identified with and responded to the purpose of the God consciousness within himself.


Then why does he claim to be God at least 40 times in the Gospels? Why would writers make up prophets to symbolize the Word not dying when they (the prophets) themselves make up most of the Word? What is the point beyond the ten commandments? Why impose poetic stories on people with the appearance of truth when there is no ultimate purpose behind them? The prophets predicted a Messiah--one greater than they--and he came. He didn't claim to be a prophet like they did. Men like Jesus had come along hundreds of times claiming to be messiahs--they all died horrible, unglorified deaths. No one tried to make up stories about them. Yet the life, death and resurrection of Jesus spread and created multitudes of converts within five years of his time on earth. Were they all so easily fooled?

Jesus' divinity: http://www.scripturecatholic.com/jesus_c...#jesus-III

Quote:In his glorified state our Lord Jesus Christ provides us with an image of the Ideal Form, the Divine Human to which all other humans aspire but can only partially manifest. God is incarnate in the lives of all humans when they act according to the call from God. This is what it means to be "saved".
Romans 10:9:
"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
John 3:16:
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
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Messages In This Thread
Freewill - by Christian - March 24, 2012 at 9:17 pm
RE: Freewill - by Nine - March 24, 2012 at 9:19 pm
RE: Freewill - by R-e-n-n-a-t - March 24, 2012 at 9:28 pm
RE: Freewill - by Erinome - March 24, 2012 at 9:35 pm
RE: Freewill - by Paul the Human - March 24, 2012 at 10:31 pm
RE: Freewill - by Phil - March 24, 2012 at 10:33 pm
RE: Freewill - by Welsh cake - March 24, 2012 at 11:07 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 24, 2012 at 11:10 pm
RE: Freewill - by Minimalist - March 24, 2012 at 11:20 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 24, 2012 at 11:24 pm
RE: Freewill - by JohnDG - March 24, 2012 at 11:44 pm
RE: Freewill - by Minimalist - March 24, 2012 at 11:48 pm
RE: Freewill - by Phil - March 25, 2012 at 12:03 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 25, 2012 at 12:57 am
RE: Freewill - by Cyberman - March 25, 2012 at 12:10 am
RE: Freewill - by Minimalist - March 25, 2012 at 1:46 am
RE: Freewill - by Christian - March 25, 2012 at 3:37 am
RE: Freewill - by Phil - March 25, 2012 at 3:42 am
RE: Freewill - by Napoléon - March 25, 2012 at 8:55 am
RE: Freewill - by Darwinian - March 25, 2012 at 3:38 am
RE: Freewill - by Christian - March 25, 2012 at 3:42 am
RE: Freewill - by The Grand Nudger - March 25, 2012 at 9:12 am
RE: Freewill - by Drich - March 25, 2012 at 10:43 am
RE: Freewill - by Napoléon - March 25, 2012 at 1:13 pm
RE: Freewill - by Drich - March 25, 2012 at 2:13 pm
RE: Freewill - by Nine - March 25, 2012 at 2:19 pm
RE: Freewill - by Tobie - March 25, 2012 at 2:21 pm
RE: Freewill - by Napoléon - March 25, 2012 at 2:39 pm
RE: Freewill - by Minimalist - March 25, 2012 at 8:41 pm
RE: Freewill - by Minimalist - March 25, 2012 at 1:50 pm
RE: Freewill - by Norfolk And Chance - March 25, 2012 at 2:16 pm
RE: Freewill - by Drich - March 25, 2012 at 4:41 pm
RE: Freewill - by NoMoreFaith - March 25, 2012 at 8:11 pm
RE: Freewill - by Drich - March 25, 2012 at 11:20 pm
RE: Freewill - by Norfolk And Chance - March 26, 2012 at 4:43 am
RE: Freewill - by Phil - March 26, 2012 at 4:43 am
RE: Freewill - by NoMoreFaith - March 26, 2012 at 6:07 am
RE: Freewill - by Drich - March 26, 2012 at 6:33 pm
RE: Freewill - by Nine - March 25, 2012 at 2:22 pm
RE: Freewill - by Tobie - March 25, 2012 at 2:26 pm
RE: Freewill - by Nine - March 25, 2012 at 2:32 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 25, 2012 at 9:25 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 26, 2012 at 1:57 am
RE: Freewill - by Drich - March 26, 2012 at 5:49 pm
RE: Freewill - by Phil - March 29, 2012 at 6:45 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 26, 2012 at 4:34 am
RE: Freewill - by genkaus - March 26, 2012 at 5:37 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 26, 2012 at 5:42 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - March 26, 2012 at 5:06 am
RE: Freewill - by Erinome - March 26, 2012 at 5:28 am
RE: Freewill - by Christian - March 26, 2012 at 5:29 am
RE: Freewill - by Erinome - March 26, 2012 at 5:42 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 26, 2012 at 5:38 am
RE: Freewill - by Christian - March 26, 2012 at 5:45 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 26, 2012 at 5:47 am
RE: Freewill - by Christian - March 26, 2012 at 5:53 am
RE: Freewill - by genkaus - March 26, 2012 at 5:56 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 26, 2012 at 5:59 am
RE: Freewill - by Christian - March 26, 2012 at 6:02 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 26, 2012 at 6:06 am
RE: Freewill - by Phil - March 26, 2012 at 6:07 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - March 27, 2012 at 1:23 am
RE: Freewill - by Phil - March 26, 2012 at 5:51 am
RE: Freewill - by KichigaiNeko - March 26, 2012 at 5:54 am
RE: Freewill - by KichigaiNeko - March 26, 2012 at 5:58 am
RE: Freewill - by KichigaiNeko - March 26, 2012 at 6:11 am
RE: Freewill - by Erinome - March 26, 2012 at 6:13 am
RE: Freewill - by fr0d0 - March 26, 2012 at 6:06 pm
RE: Freewill - by Cyberman - March 26, 2012 at 3:08 pm
RE: Freewill - by WhatIfGodWasJustAMyth - March 26, 2012 at 6:24 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 27, 2012 at 3:28 am
RE: Freewill - by Christian - March 27, 2012 at 4:08 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 27, 2012 at 4:12 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - March 27, 2012 at 6:14 pm
RE: Freewill - by fr0d0 - March 28, 2012 at 2:35 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 27, 2012 at 8:09 pm
RE: Freewill - by Cinjin - March 27, 2012 at 8:45 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 27, 2012 at 9:35 pm
RE: Freewill - by Cinjin - March 27, 2012 at 11:19 pm
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - March 28, 2012 at 2:24 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 28, 2012 at 2:45 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - March 28, 2012 at 3:03 am
RE: Freewill - by Christian - March 28, 2012 at 4:38 am
RE: Freewill - by genkaus - March 28, 2012 at 4:42 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - March 29, 2012 at 4:00 am
RE: Freewill - by genkaus - March 29, 2012 at 4:35 am
RE: Freewill - by Norfolk And Chance - March 29, 2012 at 5:51 am
RE: Freewill - by Ace Otana - March 28, 2012 at 11:26 am
RE: Freewill - by Norfolk And Chance - March 28, 2012 at 5:26 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 28, 2012 at 5:09 am
RE: Freewill - by Cinjin - March 28, 2012 at 10:11 am
RE: Freewill - by KichigaiNeko - March 27, 2012 at 9:55 pm
RE: Freewill - by Sciwoman - March 28, 2012 at 5:05 am
RE: Freewill - by Sciwoman - March 29, 2012 at 4:42 am
RE: Freewill - by The Grand Nudger - March 28, 2012 at 1:03 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 28, 2012 at 9:52 pm
Re: Freewill - by fr0d0 - March 29, 2012 at 2:45 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 29, 2012 at 4:51 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - March 29, 2012 at 5:09 pm
RE: Freewill - by Ace Otana - March 29, 2012 at 5:53 pm
RE: Freewill - by genkaus - March 30, 2012 at 3:03 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - March 30, 2012 at 3:40 am
RE: Freewill - by Ace Otana - March 30, 2012 at 4:52 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - March 30, 2012 at 1:54 pm
RE: Freewill - by Ace Otana - March 30, 2012 at 2:20 pm
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - April 1, 2012 at 2:53 am
RE: Freewill - by Ace Otana - April 1, 2012 at 11:32 am
RE: Freewill - by Whateverist - March 29, 2012 at 7:43 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 29, 2012 at 8:24 pm
RE: Freewill - by WhatIfGodWasJustAMyth - March 29, 2012 at 8:34 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 30, 2012 at 4:25 am
RE: Freewill - by Faith No More - March 30, 2012 at 2:35 pm
RE: Freewill - by Nine - March 30, 2012 at 2:36 pm
RE: Freewill - by Neo-Scholastic - March 30, 2012 at 3:19 pm
RE: Freewill - by genkaus - March 30, 2012 at 4:04 pm
RE: Freewill - by Undeceived - March 31, 2012 at 2:01 am
RE: Freewill - by Phil - March 31, 2012 at 2:24 am
RE: Freewill - by genkaus - March 31, 2012 at 5:50 am
RE: Freewill - by Neo-Scholastic - March 31, 2012 at 3:25 pm
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - April 1, 2012 at 2:39 am
RE: Freewill - by Sciwoman - March 30, 2012 at 7:50 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 30, 2012 at 8:38 pm
RE: Freewill - by Neo-Scholastic - March 30, 2012 at 8:49 pm
RE: Freewill - by Phil - March 31, 2012 at 12:43 am
RE: Freewill - by Ace Otana - March 31, 2012 at 5:17 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 31, 2012 at 2:38 am
RE: Freewill - by KichigaiNeko - March 31, 2012 at 2:53 am
RE: Freewill - by KichigaiNeko - March 31, 2012 at 5:26 am
RE: Freewill - by KichigaiNeko - March 31, 2012 at 5:55 am
RE: Freewill - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2012 at 11:35 am
RE: Freewill - by Minimalist - April 1, 2012 at 2:49 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - April 1, 2012 at 11:29 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - April 2, 2012 at 1:34 am
RE: Freewill - by Forsaken - April 2, 2012 at 4:48 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - April 2, 2012 at 2:38 pm
RE: Freewill - by Phil - April 2, 2012 at 2:48 pm
RE: Freewill - by KichigaiNeko - April 2, 2012 at 6:48 am
RE: Freewill - by Napoléon - April 2, 2012 at 6:58 am
RE: Freewill - by KichigaiNeko - April 2, 2012 at 7:04 am
Freewill - by Thomas Kelly - April 12, 2012 at 9:11 pm
RE: Freewill - by TheJackel - April 12, 2012 at 9:15 pm
RE: Freewill - by Thomas Kelly - April 12, 2012 at 9:21 pm
RE: Freewill - by TheJackel - April 12, 2012 at 11:09 pm
RE: Freewill - by Thomas Kelly - April 12, 2012 at 11:15 pm
RE: Freewill - by TheJackel - April 13, 2012 at 12:07 am
RE: Freewill - by Thomas Kelly - April 13, 2012 at 12:50 am
RE: Freewill - by Reforged - April 13, 2012 at 1:12 am
RE: Freewill - by TheJackel - April 13, 2012 at 1:22 am
RE: Freewill - by Thomas Kelly - April 13, 2012 at 1:27 am
RE: Freewill - by Reforged - April 13, 2012 at 2:47 am
RE: Freewill - by TheJackel - April 13, 2012 at 3:37 am
RE: Freewill - by Drich - April 13, 2012 at 1:05 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - April 13, 2012 at 6:20 pm
RE: Freewill - by genkaus - April 13, 2012 at 7:24 pm
RE: Freewill - by Reforged - April 14, 2012 at 6:33 pm
RE: Freewill - by Norfolk And Chance - April 13, 2012 at 8:55 pm
RE: Freewill - by Thomas Kelly - April 14, 2012 at 4:47 am
RE: Freewill - by TheJackel - April 14, 2012 at 5:59 am
RE: Freewill - by Thomas Kelly - April 14, 2012 at 9:54 am
RE: Freewill - by TheJackel - April 14, 2012 at 1:40 am
RE: Freewill - by Drich - April 12, 2012 at 11:56 pm
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - April 12, 2012 at 11:58 pm
RE: Freewill - by Reforged - April 13, 2012 at 12:02 am
RE: Freewill - by Faith No More - April 13, 2012 at 7:27 am
RE: Freewill - by Paul the Human - April 14, 2012 at 10:03 am
RE: Freewill - by Cyberman - April 14, 2012 at 10:21 am
RE: Freewill - by Tobie - April 14, 2012 at 11:39 am
RE: Freewill - by Thomas Kelly - April 14, 2012 at 12:09 pm
RE: Freewill - by TheJackel - April 14, 2012 at 2:04 pm
RE: Freewill - by Thomas Kelly - April 14, 2012 at 3:08 pm
RE: Freewill - by Welsh cake - April 14, 2012 at 12:26 pm
RE: Freewill - by No God No Problem - April 14, 2012 at 1:26 pm

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