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Freewill
RE: Freewill
(March 31, 2012 at 2:01 am)Undeceived Wrote: It's not the injustice the Romans gave that saves us, it's Jesus' love poured out on the cross.
One interpretation. The other is that he did so only out of obedience, i.e. his love of God not of man.

(March 31, 2012 at 2:01 am)Undeceived Wrote: The point is that Jesus died when he did not deserve death--he never sinned, and he faces the penalty anyway. Being God, he was also able to take all our sins on himself. Jesus asked the Father, "Why have you forsaken me?" implying that even God the Father could not look upon his Son as he bore the sins of the world.

How can anyone reading this not conclude that you are talking about two distinct entities, i.e. two gods. Read that back to yourself and be honest. Do you imagine two beings or only one? BTW "Why hast thou forsaken me" was just reference to Psalm 22 so as to confirm to observers his role as the Messiah.

(March 31, 2012 at 2:01 am)Undeceived Wrote: Today, sinners do need to repent in order to receive the sacrifice Jesus already gave.
You cannot 'recieve' a sacrifice. You can only be one or watch it happen. The disciples watched it happen and took leassons from it. We read about it and are instructed. Nothing more.

(March 31, 2012 at 2:01 am)Undeceived Wrote: Then why does he claim to be God at least 40 times in the Gospels?

John 1:18 "No one has ever seen God, but the One and Only who is at the Father's side, has made him known." Presumably the disciples could see Jesus.
Exodus 33:20 "'But,' He said,'you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live." Surely people saw JC's face without dropping dead.

(March 31, 2012 at 2:01 am)Undeceived Wrote: Why would writers make up prophets to symbolize the Word not dying when they (the prophets) themselves make up most of the Word?
Because the word is not ink on paper assembled by a council into 66 books. The Word was manifest as a historical processthrough the lives of the Patriarchs and the Prophets. It is written in your heart.

(March 31, 2012 at 2:01 am)Undeceived Wrote: What is the point beyond the ten commandments?
To do exactly what they are meant to do. Serve as a guide for right behavior. To 'keep' the commandments means to hold them in your heart and mind to guide you. You keep them before you to guide you. They are not some kind of test filled with trick questions.

(March 31, 2012 at 2:01 am)Undeceived Wrote: Why impose poetic stories on people with the appearance of truth when there is no ultimate purpose behind them? The prophets predicted a Messiah--one greater than they--and he came. He didn't claim to be a prophet like they did.

Dueteronomy 18:18 "I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account"
Mathew 13:57 "But Jesus said to them 'A prophet is not without honor except in his home town and in his own household."

Men like Jesus had come along hundreds of times claiming to be messiahs--they all died horrible, unglorified deaths.[/quote]Because their deaths were not preceeded by words and deeds comparable to those of Christ.

Here comes the proof-texting to defend the magic 'Faith Alone' incantation...

(March 31, 2012 at 2:01 am)Undeceived Wrote: Romans 10:9 "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

James 2:17 "In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." How can a dead faith save.
1 John 5 "but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has been truly perfected by this we know that we are in Him
Revelations 2:11 "...He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death." The second death is damnation, therefore to avoid it you must overcome. A profession of faith only proceeds overcoming. It is not in itself overcoming.

(March 31, 2012 at 2:01 am)Undeceived Wrote: John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
Does gave also mean 'sacrifice' or does it mean that he provides us an image by which we can be saved..something to guide us in our regeneration.?
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Messages In This Thread
Freewill - by Christian - March 24, 2012 at 9:17 pm
RE: Freewill - by Nine - March 24, 2012 at 9:19 pm
RE: Freewill - by R-e-n-n-a-t - March 24, 2012 at 9:28 pm
RE: Freewill - by Erinome - March 24, 2012 at 9:35 pm
RE: Freewill - by Paul the Human - March 24, 2012 at 10:31 pm
RE: Freewill - by Phil - March 24, 2012 at 10:33 pm
RE: Freewill - by Welsh cake - March 24, 2012 at 11:07 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 24, 2012 at 11:10 pm
RE: Freewill - by Minimalist - March 24, 2012 at 11:20 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 24, 2012 at 11:24 pm
RE: Freewill - by JohnDG - March 24, 2012 at 11:44 pm
RE: Freewill - by Minimalist - March 24, 2012 at 11:48 pm
RE: Freewill - by Phil - March 25, 2012 at 12:03 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 25, 2012 at 12:57 am
RE: Freewill - by Cyberman - March 25, 2012 at 12:10 am
RE: Freewill - by Minimalist - March 25, 2012 at 1:46 am
RE: Freewill - by Christian - March 25, 2012 at 3:37 am
RE: Freewill - by Phil - March 25, 2012 at 3:42 am
RE: Freewill - by Napoléon - March 25, 2012 at 8:55 am
RE: Freewill - by Darwinian - March 25, 2012 at 3:38 am
RE: Freewill - by Christian - March 25, 2012 at 3:42 am
RE: Freewill - by The Grand Nudger - March 25, 2012 at 9:12 am
RE: Freewill - by Drich - March 25, 2012 at 10:43 am
RE: Freewill - by Napoléon - March 25, 2012 at 1:13 pm
RE: Freewill - by Drich - March 25, 2012 at 2:13 pm
RE: Freewill - by Nine - March 25, 2012 at 2:19 pm
RE: Freewill - by Tobie - March 25, 2012 at 2:21 pm
RE: Freewill - by Napoléon - March 25, 2012 at 2:39 pm
RE: Freewill - by Minimalist - March 25, 2012 at 8:41 pm
RE: Freewill - by Minimalist - March 25, 2012 at 1:50 pm
RE: Freewill - by Norfolk And Chance - March 25, 2012 at 2:16 pm
RE: Freewill - by Drich - March 25, 2012 at 4:41 pm
RE: Freewill - by NoMoreFaith - March 25, 2012 at 8:11 pm
RE: Freewill - by Drich - March 25, 2012 at 11:20 pm
RE: Freewill - by Norfolk And Chance - March 26, 2012 at 4:43 am
RE: Freewill - by Phil - March 26, 2012 at 4:43 am
RE: Freewill - by NoMoreFaith - March 26, 2012 at 6:07 am
RE: Freewill - by Drich - March 26, 2012 at 6:33 pm
RE: Freewill - by Nine - March 25, 2012 at 2:22 pm
RE: Freewill - by Tobie - March 25, 2012 at 2:26 pm
RE: Freewill - by Nine - March 25, 2012 at 2:32 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 25, 2012 at 9:25 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 26, 2012 at 1:57 am
RE: Freewill - by Drich - March 26, 2012 at 5:49 pm
RE: Freewill - by Phil - March 29, 2012 at 6:45 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 26, 2012 at 4:34 am
RE: Freewill - by genkaus - March 26, 2012 at 5:37 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 26, 2012 at 5:42 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - March 26, 2012 at 5:06 am
RE: Freewill - by Erinome - March 26, 2012 at 5:28 am
RE: Freewill - by Christian - March 26, 2012 at 5:29 am
RE: Freewill - by Erinome - March 26, 2012 at 5:42 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 26, 2012 at 5:38 am
RE: Freewill - by Christian - March 26, 2012 at 5:45 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 26, 2012 at 5:47 am
RE: Freewill - by Christian - March 26, 2012 at 5:53 am
RE: Freewill - by genkaus - March 26, 2012 at 5:56 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 26, 2012 at 5:59 am
RE: Freewill - by Christian - March 26, 2012 at 6:02 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 26, 2012 at 6:06 am
RE: Freewill - by Phil - March 26, 2012 at 6:07 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - March 27, 2012 at 1:23 am
RE: Freewill - by Phil - March 26, 2012 at 5:51 am
RE: Freewill - by KichigaiNeko - March 26, 2012 at 5:54 am
RE: Freewill - by KichigaiNeko - March 26, 2012 at 5:58 am
RE: Freewill - by KichigaiNeko - March 26, 2012 at 6:11 am
RE: Freewill - by Erinome - March 26, 2012 at 6:13 am
RE: Freewill - by fr0d0 - March 26, 2012 at 6:06 pm
RE: Freewill - by Cyberman - March 26, 2012 at 3:08 pm
RE: Freewill - by WhatIfGodWasJustAMyth - March 26, 2012 at 6:24 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 27, 2012 at 3:28 am
RE: Freewill - by Christian - March 27, 2012 at 4:08 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 27, 2012 at 4:12 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - March 27, 2012 at 6:14 pm
RE: Freewill - by fr0d0 - March 28, 2012 at 2:35 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 27, 2012 at 8:09 pm
RE: Freewill - by Cinjin - March 27, 2012 at 8:45 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 27, 2012 at 9:35 pm
RE: Freewill - by Cinjin - March 27, 2012 at 11:19 pm
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - March 28, 2012 at 2:24 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 28, 2012 at 2:45 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - March 28, 2012 at 3:03 am
RE: Freewill - by Christian - March 28, 2012 at 4:38 am
RE: Freewill - by genkaus - March 28, 2012 at 4:42 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - March 29, 2012 at 4:00 am
RE: Freewill - by genkaus - March 29, 2012 at 4:35 am
RE: Freewill - by Norfolk And Chance - March 29, 2012 at 5:51 am
RE: Freewill - by Ace Otana - March 28, 2012 at 11:26 am
RE: Freewill - by Norfolk And Chance - March 28, 2012 at 5:26 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 28, 2012 at 5:09 am
RE: Freewill - by Cinjin - March 28, 2012 at 10:11 am
RE: Freewill - by KichigaiNeko - March 27, 2012 at 9:55 pm
RE: Freewill - by Sciwoman - March 28, 2012 at 5:05 am
RE: Freewill - by Sciwoman - March 29, 2012 at 4:42 am
RE: Freewill - by The Grand Nudger - March 28, 2012 at 1:03 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 28, 2012 at 9:52 pm
Re: Freewill - by fr0d0 - March 29, 2012 at 2:45 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 29, 2012 at 4:51 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - March 29, 2012 at 5:09 pm
RE: Freewill - by Ace Otana - March 29, 2012 at 5:53 pm
RE: Freewill - by genkaus - March 30, 2012 at 3:03 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - March 30, 2012 at 3:40 am
RE: Freewill - by Ace Otana - March 30, 2012 at 4:52 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - March 30, 2012 at 1:54 pm
RE: Freewill - by Ace Otana - March 30, 2012 at 2:20 pm
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - April 1, 2012 at 2:53 am
RE: Freewill - by Ace Otana - April 1, 2012 at 11:32 am
RE: Freewill - by Whateverist - March 29, 2012 at 7:43 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 29, 2012 at 8:24 pm
RE: Freewill - by WhatIfGodWasJustAMyth - March 29, 2012 at 8:34 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 30, 2012 at 4:25 am
RE: Freewill - by Faith No More - March 30, 2012 at 2:35 pm
RE: Freewill - by Nine - March 30, 2012 at 2:36 pm
RE: Freewill - by Neo-Scholastic - March 30, 2012 at 3:19 pm
RE: Freewill - by genkaus - March 30, 2012 at 4:04 pm
RE: Freewill - by Undeceived - March 31, 2012 at 2:01 am
RE: Freewill - by Phil - March 31, 2012 at 2:24 am
RE: Freewill - by genkaus - March 31, 2012 at 5:50 am
RE: Freewill - by Neo-Scholastic - March 31, 2012 at 3:25 pm
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - April 1, 2012 at 2:39 am
RE: Freewill - by Sciwoman - March 30, 2012 at 7:50 pm
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 30, 2012 at 8:38 pm
RE: Freewill - by Neo-Scholastic - March 30, 2012 at 8:49 pm
RE: Freewill - by Phil - March 31, 2012 at 12:43 am
RE: Freewill - by Ace Otana - March 31, 2012 at 5:17 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - March 31, 2012 at 2:38 am
RE: Freewill - by KichigaiNeko - March 31, 2012 at 2:53 am
RE: Freewill - by KichigaiNeko - March 31, 2012 at 5:26 am
RE: Freewill - by KichigaiNeko - March 31, 2012 at 5:55 am
RE: Freewill - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2012 at 11:35 am
RE: Freewill - by Minimalist - April 1, 2012 at 2:49 am
RE: Freewill - by FallentoReason - April 1, 2012 at 11:29 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - April 2, 2012 at 1:34 am
RE: Freewill - by Forsaken - April 2, 2012 at 4:48 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - April 2, 2012 at 2:38 pm
RE: Freewill - by Phil - April 2, 2012 at 2:48 pm
RE: Freewill - by KichigaiNeko - April 2, 2012 at 6:48 am
RE: Freewill - by Napoléon - April 2, 2012 at 6:58 am
RE: Freewill - by KichigaiNeko - April 2, 2012 at 7:04 am
Freewill - by Thomas Kelly - April 12, 2012 at 9:11 pm
RE: Freewill - by TheJackel - April 12, 2012 at 9:15 pm
RE: Freewill - by Thomas Kelly - April 12, 2012 at 9:21 pm
RE: Freewill - by TheJackel - April 12, 2012 at 11:09 pm
RE: Freewill - by Thomas Kelly - April 12, 2012 at 11:15 pm
RE: Freewill - by TheJackel - April 13, 2012 at 12:07 am
RE: Freewill - by Thomas Kelly - April 13, 2012 at 12:50 am
RE: Freewill - by Reforged - April 13, 2012 at 1:12 am
RE: Freewill - by TheJackel - April 13, 2012 at 1:22 am
RE: Freewill - by Thomas Kelly - April 13, 2012 at 1:27 am
RE: Freewill - by Reforged - April 13, 2012 at 2:47 am
RE: Freewill - by TheJackel - April 13, 2012 at 3:37 am
RE: Freewill - by Drich - April 13, 2012 at 1:05 am
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - April 13, 2012 at 6:20 pm
RE: Freewill - by genkaus - April 13, 2012 at 7:24 pm
RE: Freewill - by Reforged - April 14, 2012 at 6:33 pm
RE: Freewill - by Norfolk And Chance - April 13, 2012 at 8:55 pm
RE: Freewill - by Thomas Kelly - April 14, 2012 at 4:47 am
RE: Freewill - by TheJackel - April 14, 2012 at 5:59 am
RE: Freewill - by Thomas Kelly - April 14, 2012 at 9:54 am
RE: Freewill - by TheJackel - April 14, 2012 at 1:40 am
RE: Freewill - by Drich - April 12, 2012 at 11:56 pm
RE: Freewill - by Godschild - April 12, 2012 at 11:58 pm
RE: Freewill - by Reforged - April 13, 2012 at 12:02 am
RE: Freewill - by Faith No More - April 13, 2012 at 7:27 am
RE: Freewill - by Paul the Human - April 14, 2012 at 10:03 am
RE: Freewill - by Cyberman - April 14, 2012 at 10:21 am
RE: Freewill - by Tobie - April 14, 2012 at 11:39 am
RE: Freewill - by Thomas Kelly - April 14, 2012 at 12:09 pm
RE: Freewill - by TheJackel - April 14, 2012 at 2:04 pm
RE: Freewill - by Thomas Kelly - April 14, 2012 at 3:08 pm
RE: Freewill - by Welsh cake - April 14, 2012 at 12:26 pm
RE: Freewill - by No God No Problem - April 14, 2012 at 1:26 pm

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