[quote='Mister Agenda' pid='263253' dateline='1333038821']
[quote]You mean, why would he go to the trouble of creating us if not to suck up to him? If there is a God, I hope it's better than that. And I'm not sure 'went through alot of trouble' is a concept that can be applied to an omnipotent being. Of course, it makes sense for a God that took days to create everything and needed rest after. That's a more believable God anyway, do you believe in the God described in Genesis or the omnipotent one?[/quote]
No what i am saying that if God did not care then why did he sacrifice his son on your behalf?
[quote]Parenting.[/quote]
how so?
[quote]You mean he can't hear me unless I use the right number?[/quote]Something like that.You can't hear Him unless the right number is dialed.
[quote]That is funny, because I note that no one who believes in any god has that problem, they all get the god they're dialing when they follow their prescribed path.[/quote]Not true i work with many people of the christian faith and many others who do not "feel" their god.
[quote] It's almost like once you believe something is real and you can communicate with it telepathically, it's easy to believe you really are communicating with it telepathically. [/quote]It is not as easy (if as you suggest you go it alone)as you need it to be to sustain your belief of Christianity.
[quote]The reason skeptics don't believe unsupported claims is because we do know what to look for. [/quote]Maybe you are looking for the wrong things.
[quote]What? It doesn't matter how my father communicates, if it's intelligible he can verify that it's him, because he knows me and knows what to say to convince me it's really him. [/quote]If you don't know to pick up the phone then nothing your father says will matter.
[quote]God can't talk to me unless I use the special code? [/quote] The "code" is not for Him, it is for you. Unless you humble yourself and use the code you will not know have what you need to understand what is being said.
[quote]He doesn't know that if he's real, I want to know it? [/quote]Yes He does, that is why He has provided answers for ALL who ask, seek and knock.
[quote]Or he just withholds confirmation until after I convince myself he's real? [/quote]You do not have to convince yourself of anything. Just have enough "faith" to start the process. He will fill in the blanks.
[quote]Funny how that works. I bet I could get confirmation that just about any being that communicates with me inside my own head is doing so once I've convinced myself it's real. [/quote]
That is a convenient observation from one who has never followed the path.
[quote]I require evidence proportionate to the claim to believe it.[/quote]Then Ask, Seek, and knock for what you want.
[quote]Otherwise I could believe absolutely anything, and that's no way to go through life. I believe there are great magicians and i believe their tricks are tricks. I expect an omniscient and omnipotent being to know what would convince me,[/quote]And He expects you to bend a knee like everyone else.
[quote]and I expect if it loves me it would not send me to hell if it could prevent it by just letting me know it really exists. [/quote]This is a lie of Satan. God's leading attribute is not a universal hippy love for everyone. It is righteousness. The Same righteousness that placed His Son on a cross for sin, will also see all of the unrepentant/Proud in Hell.
[quote]Ask Paul. [/quote]Are you Paul? Not to mention Everything Paul did was done in the Name of God. The only God he knew. God saw his heart and changed what needed to be changed to put him on the right path.
What do you do in the Name of God?
Where is your heart?
They why would God come to you?
[quote]The most powerful man in the country starts by clearly existing. If I told you a man named Bob Harley is really the most powerful man in the country and has a priceless gift for you, and if you go to Allendale SC next Tuesday, I'll introduce you and you'll get the gift, would you do it? Or would you expect some evidence this Harley guy really exists and really has a priceless gift for you? [/quote]I would Defiantly do my due diligence, before dismissing his offer.
What have you personally done to dismiss the claims of God?
[quote]Out of sentiment for my upbringing, I suppose, I am asking for much less evidence for the existence of God than it would take to get me to believe the most powerful man in the country has a gift for me. [/quote]Then simply ask seek and knock as outlined in Luke 11 and you will have what you are looking for.
[quote]What a contemptible sentiment. Have you no compassion? [/quote]Do you have compassion for those going to Heaven? Why not? Because they chose to goto Heaven right? The same is true about those going to Hell. If you are going you chose to go, to Hell then why is compassion needed? It was your Choice.
Those who do not want to spend eternity with God have the option not to spend an eternity with God.
[quote]The reason is that I prefer not to believe things that are not true, and you're giving a recipe that can be used to believe anything, true or not. Shouldn't your God have a contact method distinguishable from Vishnu's?[/quote]Please show in Hindu text where a similar path is set before the new believer.
[quote]Infinite punishment for finite crimes cannot be justice. [/quote]
Then view it as a consequence of your life's choices.
[quote]It's a non-sequitur, but I'll play along. Sure the Nazis didn't think they were being evil. Everyone thinks they're justified in what they do. It doesn't mean they are. Still doesn't mean that torturing them for eternity, infinitely longer than the lifespan of suns, is justice.[/quote] again not punishment. the result of your life's decision. Either you want to be with God for eternity or you do not.
God simply holds you to the choice you make.
[quote]You can do the same with hell. Universalism's don't believe in eternal damnation and can use the Bible to support their view. You could too, and you'd be a better human for it. [/quote]
Lol, I am only representing what is in scripture. Whether or not I am better for it in the eyes of my peers is of no consequence to me what so ever.
Hell is hell and there is an eternity of it waiting for all who choose it.
[quote]You are responsible for your own ideas and for your own interpretation of scripture.[/quote]My sole responsibility is to represent scripture with all the gifts God has seen fit to give me.
[quote]Even if you follow someone else's interpretation, the decision to do so is yours. You've added to Genesis based on your own interpretation. The decision to believe in eternal damnation is on you, whether or not God is real. Perhaps you should consider studying Universalism before making your final decision about hell. [/quote]Just because I do not support universalism does not mean I have not studied it. I answer to God not to those who support universalism or want to feel good about the eternal decision they have made. Therefore my "answers" reflect the God of the bible in whom I serve.
[quote]You mean, why would he go to the trouble of creating us if not to suck up to him? If there is a God, I hope it's better than that. And I'm not sure 'went through alot of trouble' is a concept that can be applied to an omnipotent being. Of course, it makes sense for a God that took days to create everything and needed rest after. That's a more believable God anyway, do you believe in the God described in Genesis or the omnipotent one?[/quote]
No what i am saying that if God did not care then why did he sacrifice his son on your behalf?
[quote]Parenting.[/quote]
how so?
[quote]You mean he can't hear me unless I use the right number?[/quote]Something like that.You can't hear Him unless the right number is dialed.
[quote]That is funny, because I note that no one who believes in any god has that problem, they all get the god they're dialing when they follow their prescribed path.[/quote]Not true i work with many people of the christian faith and many others who do not "feel" their god.
[quote] It's almost like once you believe something is real and you can communicate with it telepathically, it's easy to believe you really are communicating with it telepathically. [/quote]It is not as easy (if as you suggest you go it alone)as you need it to be to sustain your belief of Christianity.
[quote]The reason skeptics don't believe unsupported claims is because we do know what to look for. [/quote]Maybe you are looking for the wrong things.
[quote]What? It doesn't matter how my father communicates, if it's intelligible he can verify that it's him, because he knows me and knows what to say to convince me it's really him. [/quote]If you don't know to pick up the phone then nothing your father says will matter.
[quote]God can't talk to me unless I use the special code? [/quote] The "code" is not for Him, it is for you. Unless you humble yourself and use the code you will not know have what you need to understand what is being said.
[quote]He doesn't know that if he's real, I want to know it? [/quote]Yes He does, that is why He has provided answers for ALL who ask, seek and knock.
[quote]Or he just withholds confirmation until after I convince myself he's real? [/quote]You do not have to convince yourself of anything. Just have enough "faith" to start the process. He will fill in the blanks.
[quote]Funny how that works. I bet I could get confirmation that just about any being that communicates with me inside my own head is doing so once I've convinced myself it's real. [/quote]
That is a convenient observation from one who has never followed the path.
[quote]I require evidence proportionate to the claim to believe it.[/quote]Then Ask, Seek, and knock for what you want.
[quote]Otherwise I could believe absolutely anything, and that's no way to go through life. I believe there are great magicians and i believe their tricks are tricks. I expect an omniscient and omnipotent being to know what would convince me,[/quote]And He expects you to bend a knee like everyone else.
[quote]and I expect if it loves me it would not send me to hell if it could prevent it by just letting me know it really exists. [/quote]This is a lie of Satan. God's leading attribute is not a universal hippy love for everyone. It is righteousness. The Same righteousness that placed His Son on a cross for sin, will also see all of the unrepentant/Proud in Hell.
[quote]Ask Paul. [/quote]Are you Paul? Not to mention Everything Paul did was done in the Name of God. The only God he knew. God saw his heart and changed what needed to be changed to put him on the right path.
What do you do in the Name of God?
Where is your heart?
They why would God come to you?
[quote]The most powerful man in the country starts by clearly existing. If I told you a man named Bob Harley is really the most powerful man in the country and has a priceless gift for you, and if you go to Allendale SC next Tuesday, I'll introduce you and you'll get the gift, would you do it? Or would you expect some evidence this Harley guy really exists and really has a priceless gift for you? [/quote]I would Defiantly do my due diligence, before dismissing his offer.
What have you personally done to dismiss the claims of God?
[quote]Out of sentiment for my upbringing, I suppose, I am asking for much less evidence for the existence of God than it would take to get me to believe the most powerful man in the country has a gift for me. [/quote]Then simply ask seek and knock as outlined in Luke 11 and you will have what you are looking for.
[quote]What a contemptible sentiment. Have you no compassion? [/quote]Do you have compassion for those going to Heaven? Why not? Because they chose to goto Heaven right? The same is true about those going to Hell. If you are going you chose to go, to Hell then why is compassion needed? It was your Choice.
Those who do not want to spend eternity with God have the option not to spend an eternity with God.
[quote]The reason is that I prefer not to believe things that are not true, and you're giving a recipe that can be used to believe anything, true or not. Shouldn't your God have a contact method distinguishable from Vishnu's?[/quote]Please show in Hindu text where a similar path is set before the new believer.
[quote]Infinite punishment for finite crimes cannot be justice. [/quote]
Then view it as a consequence of your life's choices.
[quote]It's a non-sequitur, but I'll play along. Sure the Nazis didn't think they were being evil. Everyone thinks they're justified in what they do. It doesn't mean they are. Still doesn't mean that torturing them for eternity, infinitely longer than the lifespan of suns, is justice.[/quote] again not punishment. the result of your life's decision. Either you want to be with God for eternity or you do not.
God simply holds you to the choice you make.
[quote]You can do the same with hell. Universalism's don't believe in eternal damnation and can use the Bible to support their view. You could too, and you'd be a better human for it. [/quote]
Lol, I am only representing what is in scripture. Whether or not I am better for it in the eyes of my peers is of no consequence to me what so ever.
Hell is hell and there is an eternity of it waiting for all who choose it.
[quote]You are responsible for your own ideas and for your own interpretation of scripture.[/quote]My sole responsibility is to represent scripture with all the gifts God has seen fit to give me.
[quote]Even if you follow someone else's interpretation, the decision to do so is yours. You've added to Genesis based on your own interpretation. The decision to believe in eternal damnation is on you, whether or not God is real. Perhaps you should consider studying Universalism before making your final decision about hell. [/quote]Just because I do not support universalism does not mean I have not studied it. I answer to God not to those who support universalism or want to feel good about the eternal decision they have made. Therefore my "answers" reflect the God of the bible in whom I serve.
