Uni Health Care

[Tiberius]

You see Adrian ... I don't see how you can separate economics from social for socialism, socialism (to my mind) is the entire package so with what you appear to be saying about economics I don't really see how you can claim to be socialist.

Erm...I'm not claiming to be a socialist. I'm claiming to be left-wing on social issues, and right-wing on economic issues.

Socialism itself is an economic system, not a political system. Left-wing politics is a political system that uses socialism as an economic system and a social system that changes "traditional social orders".

however, socialism itself is not a political system; it is instead an economic system distinct from capitalism (link)

If you go to the Left-wing politics page at Wikipedia (I know you hate it, but still...) you will see in a "Positions" section that includes Economics (noting that socialism is the most common system for the left), and Social progressivism (noting the break from traditional values supported by the left). There are other positions in the article, but those are the two I am focussing on.

Left-wing politics is a combination of ideas, including those of socialism and social progressivism. You may very well have to be a socialist to agree with all the ideas of the left (since they include socialism), but you do not have to be a socialist to agree with a select number of them. I agree with social progressivism for instance.

Likewise, right-wing politics is a political system that uses capitalism as an economic system. However it rejects the ideas of social progressivism, seeking to keep with traditional values. I disagree with this, but I agree with capitalism as an economic system.

To put it another way: (ticks indicate my position)

The Left:
- Advocates socialism as an economic system.
- Advocates social progressivism. (tick)

The Right:
- Advocates capitalism (and in the most cases are anti-communist) as an economic system. (tick)
- Advocates traditionalism.

These ticks define the so-called "right-wing libertarianism" that I belong to politically, by economic and social policies.

So no, I'm not claiming to be a socialist. I'm just making clear that the term "left-wing" covers many political ideas, of which I subscribe to a select few (the social ones), and "right-wing" covers many political ideas, of which I subscribe to a select few (the economic ones). Socially left, economically right.

This distinction was brought up in the "are you left, right, or centre" thread when Eilonnwy said she was left wing but didn't consider herself a socialist (interesting read).