(April 3, 2012 at 1:29 am)Undeceived Wrote: Those are probably the largest non-creed issues right now. Luckily, neither has any bearing on means of salvation or the inerrancy of the the Bible.
It depends on whether you think Jesus lived and promoted the Law of Moses or not.
These are big issues that the bible does not give a clear answer about. It depends entirely on what you want to hear and therefore define the bible in that manner.
Again, what does "means of salvation" even mean, its more than just accepting Jesus. Its about a change in the rules, a new way to salvation. We must assume there was one way before Jesus, and a new way afterwards. This is a fundamentally unfair way to play the game, since it means that someones grandfather and grandson, one may have hell inflicted upon them and one does not, despite no real change in the way they live their life.
Just a thought.
Undeceived Wrote:If he shoved the truth down our throats, we would not love Jesus for his sacrifice, we would grudgingly say sorry for sins without meaning it just to get in to heaven. Coincidentally, not meaning it means we wouldn't be allowed in heaven anyway--therefore being more obvious produces no more believers.
Ouch, I think I heard something crack while you twisted on that one.
Let's ignore the fact that a sacrifice of life, when Jesus would have been the one person who knows he doesn't matter in the long run and had a golden ticket home.. was not much of a sacrifice anyway.
The non-sequitor of only grudgingly saying sorry is blatantly apparent. There is no reason to think that a clear account would be less effective.
If a laymans book of science makes people more interested in science, and helps them recognise the wonder of the universe, how would that be less effective than a scholarly text written in scientific jargon?
Does this mean, that if it was even more obscure, you'd believe it more? Is it at the perfect point of unintelligible nonsense for you to have faith without being grudging about it right now?
Nonsense.
Self-authenticating private evidence is useless, because it is indistinguishable from the illusion of it. ― Kel, Kelosophy Blog
If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic. ― Tim Minchin, Storm
If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic. ― Tim Minchin, Storm
