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The Bible
#46
RE: The Bible
(April 3, 2012 at 10:47 am)NoMoreFaith Wrote:
(April 3, 2012 at 1:29 am)Undeceived Wrote: Those are probably the largest non-creed issues right now. Luckily, neither has any bearing on means of salvation or the inerrancy of the the Bible.

It depends on whether you think Jesus lived and promoted the Law of Moses or not.

This has to be clarified. Jesus fulfilled, not promoted, the Law of Moses. Matthew 5:17, Jesus speaking: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." He was the sacrificial lamb (read Isaiah 53). Just as the Hebrews were saved by the blood of the lamb on the first Passover, so Jesus' blood saved all mankind on a Passover. Jesus upheld the spirit of the law, rather than the old traditions. See Luke 6:1-5, Matthew 23:1-8 and Mark 2:23-28. He saw the reason behind the law, which he summed up in two commandments:
"The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”
“Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
(Mark 12:29-33)

Quote:Again, what does "means of salvation" even mean, its more than just accepting Jesus. Its about a change in the rules, a new way to salvation. We must assume there was one way before Jesus, and a new way afterwards.

Romans 4:1-8 describes how Abraham was saved:
What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. But what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
and whose sins are covered;
blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”

The key words are “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Abraham wasn’t made sinless by his actions, but by believing God. This is the same way Christians are saved in the New Testament. Have faith and God will forgive you. Since God transcends time, it doesn’t matter when Jesus made his sacrifice, as long as he did.

It’s true that people followed different laws in OT times, but most of those were added by man. The Halakha contains Talmudic and rabbinic law as well as Biblical law, plus hundreds of customs and traditions—such as how to wash, when and where to wash. The Bible simply says to wash. Washing symbolized the purification Jesus would give people when he died on the cross. It’s not that the works saved you, but that you proved your faith by doing them (“Faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. -James 2:17). Believing in God’s forgiveness was their means of salvation, as well as ours today.
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Messages In This Thread
The Bible - by cdabamsworth - March 31, 2012 at 11:11 am
RE: The Bible - by mediamogul - March 31, 2012 at 11:18 am
RE: The Bible - by cdabamsworth - March 31, 2012 at 11:24 am
RE: The Bible - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2012 at 11:31 am
RE: The Bible - by KichigaiNeko - March 31, 2012 at 11:36 am
RE: The Bible - by Welsh cake - March 31, 2012 at 11:51 am
RE: The Bible - by Undeceived - March 31, 2012 at 2:36 pm
RE: The Bible - by genkaus - March 31, 2012 at 3:10 pm
RE: The Bible - by Sciwoman - March 31, 2012 at 5:02 pm
RE: The Bible - by Undeceived - April 1, 2012 at 10:33 pm
RE: The Bible - by Drich - March 31, 2012 at 2:59 pm
RE: The Bible - by Phil - March 31, 2012 at 3:08 pm
RE: The Bible - by Drich - March 31, 2012 at 6:03 pm
RE: The Bible - by Phil - March 31, 2012 at 9:02 pm
RE: The Bible - by Drich - March 31, 2012 at 10:54 pm
RE: The Bible - by Minimalist - March 31, 2012 at 4:38 pm
RE: The Bible - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2012 at 5:09 pm
RE: The Bible - by Minimalist - March 31, 2012 at 6:32 pm
RE: The Bible - by padraic - March 31, 2012 at 9:08 pm
RE: The Bible - by Norfolk And Chance - April 3, 2012 at 5:53 am
RE: The Bible - by The Grand Nudger - March 31, 2012 at 9:21 pm
RE: The Bible - by Sciwoman - April 2, 2012 at 4:27 am
RE: The Bible - by Undeceived - April 2, 2012 at 5:31 pm
RE: The Bible - by padraic - April 2, 2012 at 8:04 pm
RE: The Bible - by Undeceived - April 3, 2012 at 1:29 am
RE: The Bible - by NoMoreFaith - April 3, 2012 at 10:47 am
RE: The Bible - by Undeceived - April 3, 2012 at 1:08 pm
RE: The Bible - by Neo-Scholastic - April 2, 2012 at 10:55 pm
RE: The Bible - by Forsaken - April 3, 2012 at 12:45 am
RE: The Bible - by Neo-Scholastic - April 3, 2012 at 9:53 am
RE: The Bible - by FallentoReason - April 3, 2012 at 10:51 am
RE: The Bible - by Phil - April 3, 2012 at 10:57 am
RE: The Bible - by NoMoreFaith - April 3, 2012 at 10:59 am
RE: The Bible - by Phil - April 3, 2012 at 11:10 am
RE: The Bible - by FallentoReason - April 3, 2012 at 11:03 am
RE: The Bible - by Phil - April 3, 2012 at 11:16 am
RE: The Bible - by FallentoReason - April 3, 2012 at 11:27 am
RE: The Bible - by Phil - April 3, 2012 at 11:35 am
RE: The Bible - by FallentoReason - April 3, 2012 at 11:40 am
RE: The Bible - by Phil - April 3, 2012 at 11:51 am
RE: The Bible - by NoMoreFaith - April 3, 2012 at 11:54 am
RE: The Bible - by Sciwoman - April 3, 2012 at 12:57 pm
RE: The Bible - by FallentoReason - April 3, 2012 at 11:13 am
RE: The Bible - by NoMoreFaith - April 3, 2012 at 11:37 am
RE: The Bible - by Norfolk And Chance - April 3, 2012 at 12:08 pm
RE: The Bible - by Phil - April 3, 2012 at 12:24 pm
RE: The Bible - by Norfolk And Chance - April 3, 2012 at 7:38 pm
RE: The Bible - by NoMoreFaith - April 3, 2012 at 2:25 pm
RE: The Bible - by Neo-Scholastic - April 3, 2012 at 2:28 pm
RE: The Bible - by Minimalist - April 3, 2012 at 7:40 pm
RE: The Bible - by BoyWonder - April 3, 2012 at 8:09 pm
RE: The Bible - by Neo-Scholastic - April 3, 2012 at 11:39 pm
RE: The Bible - by Thomas Kelly - April 12, 2012 at 9:53 pm
RE: The Bible - by R-e-n-n-a-t - April 12, 2012 at 9:55 pm
RE: The Bible - by Thomas Kelly - April 12, 2012 at 10:02 pm
RE: The Bible - by FallentoReason - April 12, 2012 at 10:14 pm
RE: The Bible - by Thomas Kelly - April 12, 2012 at 10:24 pm
RE: The Bible - by R-e-n-n-a-t - April 12, 2012 at 10:27 pm
RE: The Bible - by Thomas Kelly - April 12, 2012 at 11:00 pm

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